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M77 PAP or VEPR 308 (Type 01 Sights)


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I have seen this question asked elsewhere but it was at very pro-VEPR sites/forums and most of the people never seen let alone handled the M77 PAP.  I know a few of you grabbed one when they were in stock no long ago.

 

With that said, which would you go for?  The VEPR's I would be looking at are the 20.5" or 23" square back versions (Type 01 Sights).

 

Also it would not matter which one I bought I would change out the butt stocks on both.

 

Basically I want an "economically" accurate shooter........in other words something that is accurate but does not have the price tag of an AR10.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

 

-BP

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Depends on the money. At the moment, M77, because I reload and that adjustable gas block is a big plus. It's a really tempting gun to me. Especially at the current price point. I think I would be OK with the thumbhole stock too. For 922r, you can get rid of the forend, and trigger group. I think that was enough to get legal, but don't hold me to it. 

 

One thing to consider for the price point comparison is mag availability, which is due to open up by CSSpecs very soon. The other big bargain eater is the scope mount. It's the wierd type, with few options. That pretty much means it is going to cost about $50 extra to properly mount a scope.

 

There is a guy on youtube "ginsboy2003" who just did a series on converting one. Check it out.

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I would suggest looking at the TX weapons mount for the Yugo.

 

Depends how accurate you want and what you want from it.

 

I see the M77 as being a lighter rifle, the barrel profile seems to be a slight bit thinner and the over all feel is lighter.

I don't think the M77 has a chrome lined barrel (I could be wrong), which would lend it to being more accurate.

 

If you see yourself carrying the rifle as your end intended use, I would say the M77 has some advantages. One other positive thing is that most if not all M77 rifles have threads under a welded cap, and have front sight blocks drilled for the detent pin. So installing a muzzle brake or flash hider is fairly simple.

 

One of the disadvantages the M77 has is the Yugo pattern stock, and being slant cut. Ace does sell an adapter that fits the M77.

 

The Veprs are fairly heavy, any have slightly better build quality.

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GunFun..........Just went out and watched 3 of that guys videos.  Good stuff.......I especially like the one about easily modifying a UTG optics mount to get it in a more forward position.  That is one of my worries with the M77 (optics too far back).

CSSPECS.........Yep no chrome lining on the M77.  Also, how are those mags coming?........that is another things I will be very interested in.
 

If I went M77 I have an new Yugo M70 Wood Stock set I bought off of AK Builder.........I was going to put that on my CAI M70B1 but I think I am going to go a different route with firearm.  I would like to get the M77 back to its original look.

 

For those of you who have the M77 with optics.......what kind of groups are you getting out of it?

 

-bp

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I believe that UTG mod he showed has return to zero problems.

Man that is a downer.  A $550 gun is quickly turning into a $675 gun (TWS for Yugo).

 

What other mounting options (side mount) are there to get the optic forward without going nuts ($$$) with the TWS?

 

Or should I not be concerned about the optic appearing to be really far back (is it really as bad as it looks?)?

 

-bp

Edited by burntpowder
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I could be wrong, but generally if you want your scope mount to be removable and return to zero, it needs to bump to a stop either forward or backwards. He took out the stop at the back. You might be able to do a similar mod and run a bolt into the mount such that it would serve as a stop somewhere else on the rail, but that mod basically relies on the clamp portion of the mount to center into the little divot.

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Well I guess Obama already helped you make your decision. No more Veprs for you.

 

Sorry to say but by the time you convert the M77 to something you want it to be, it's getting close to the price of a low-end AR-10. However there is no piston-driven, adjustable-gas AR10 I know of that is anywhere near the price range of the M77. The M77 is definitely ahead in this department if you want to run with a lot of different types of .308 factory loads, bullet weights, and handloads.

 

The factory stock is set up to shoot with optics. Shooting with irons is basically painful or impossible with the way the cheek comb is. I am replacing mine with the ACE folder - I have the block but haven't ordered the folder yet.

 

By BP-02 fits the M77 well but the rail is, of course, set back too far. I purchased a UTG Pro rail that is the perfect length for the M77, but unfortunately it will not clamp down securely on the Zastava rail, no matter how tightly it's adjusted. I have not tried any other side rails at this point. The TWS rail may be the way to go, as ultimately I really only ever intend to shoot the rifle scoped, or possibly with a TWS-mounted peep sight - hopefully this will give enough of a good iron sight picture to do some high-power shooting at longer ranges.

 

Zastava really should have exported the optics mounts for these and included them as a standard feature, or as a dealer-cost option.

 

The other nice benefit of the M77 over the Vepr is that it will use any M14 mag with light modification, so there is already a whole range of high-cap and low-cap magazine options open for you if you don't mind using a dremel and bending a bit of sheet metal. The M14 mag follower will also hold the bolt open on empty, though I'm not sure how this will hold up over time as I think a lot of M14 mags use aluminum followers.

 

Also I will say that the factory trigger is fantastic, but only after you clean it up. Both my M77 and M92 had gritty, unpredictable trigger pulls until I cleaned up the FCG. Lots of tooling chatter marks on them - on both of mine, lightly filing the face of the trigger hook surfaces, then chamfering the edges of the hooks, did the most to clean it up. Just be careful to file the hooks uniformly, and stop when all tooling marks have been eliminated. I then buffed both hammer and trigger contact surfaces with 2000 grit paper - you can also use a small buffing wheel but it may take longer. Once this done, the factory trigger is a very smooth first stage, with a predictably pronounced second stage that breaks cleanly at about 4lbs, I would guess. Like I said, fantastic trigger once you work it.

 

Here is where I'm at with mine at the moment. Installed detent plunger in the FSB, removed threaded cap, installed CNC Warrior AIMR FH that is basically identical to the factory M77/M90 FH. Also modded some cheap 20-rd M14 mags.

 

I have some nice condition M70 wood grips and a standard Yugo pistol grip waiting for when the ACE folder is finally installed on the rifle.

 

Here you can see where the low-profile BP-02 mount sits - the Pilad 4x PSO is usable in this setup but the relief is close to the edge of being too close - needs to be set forward another inch or so. I have not shot it yet with this scope, it's still dialed in for my WASR. The UTG Pro rail I bought, fits perfectly on the M77 with my 3-12x scope with .308 ballistic turrets, but again, the rail doesn't secure properly.

 

My wife's mother and stepfather bought a ton of property out in Montana last year and I'm really looking forward to doing some good long range shooting with this rifle out there.

 

x7q5RCy.jpg

Edited by mancat
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Well I guess Obama already helped you make your decision. No more Veprs for you.

 

 

Yeah no kidding!  I thought the same thing as I was watching Veprs fly off the online shelves the other morning .......... and me lacking the ability to impulse buy on a firearm did not help.

I was just about set on the M77 and Obama has done me a slight favor but it only goes as far as me making the choice between these two.....in the long run it sucks for everyone.

 

Good info in your post (everyone in this thread for that matter too) and so M77 it will be.  Now if I can just find somewhere that has one in stock.  If anyone sees one, shoot me a PM.

 

-bp

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  • 2 weeks later...

FYI there is a cheap clone of the MI mount which is perfect for the M77 available on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151352628812

 

I just ordered one for my M77.

 

a slight modification to the mount puts the entire rail directly over the dust cover, and is centered on the bore axis

 

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2031664&postcount=9

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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2031664#post2031664

 

Sorry it was not detailed in that specific post... You have to scroll down a bit in the first post to see the mod. It's simply to mill out a small cut in the side mount, NOT the receiver rail. This allows the MI clone mount to slide fully forward and stop on the lower portion of the rail, rather than the top portion.

 

Basically, it converts it to mount as an SVD clamp. No mods to the rifle - I agree, I will not mod the rail on the rifle itself.

Edited by mancat
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I have been scouring the net for the past hour trying to find this answer (not a big deal but I am on a mission now)..........what is the twist rate of the barrel?  I have only seen where people assume it is 1:12 because that is what the M77 B1 is (304.8mm).

 

-bp

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  • 3 weeks later...

I received the MI clone mount and had a buddy modify it (gain about 1.5 inches forward) on a milling machine he has access to at work.  The bottom rail of the optical rail serves as the mount stop now instead of the top (pre-modified).......it was hard to try and hold the gun and phone at the same time but the mount does line up with the open sights/bore.

 

Modification

1_zpsa510b781.jpg

 

Optics Mount-Side View

3_zps00a93a1a.jpg

 

Charging-Side View

2_zpsc5af553c.jpg

 

Rear View Leaf at "O"

4_zpsf7300212.jpg

 

Read View Leaf @ "6"

5_zpsb2894721.jpg

 

 

I think now I am going to order up the detent/plunger and get that done (easy and inexpensive).  Not sure what muzzle device I will put on it.  I am leaning toward an AIMR or a Tabuk.  For now I am most likely going to throw on a scope I have laying around just to see how it shoots before I think about optics.

 

-bp

Edited by burntpowder
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  • 2 months later...

It has been awhile and I have not posted any updates.  Detent installed (super simple) and added an AIMR muzzle device.

 

Had an older box of 150gr Remington Core-Lokt laying around and have only shot about 12-15 rounds out of it.  With that cheap Simmons Deerfield scope and leaning against my ATV (not far from shooting offhand) I was able to dial the scope in and my last 3 rounds were 1" @ 50 yards.  IMO that is not too bad for basically shooting offhand.

 

I started out with the gas block on setting #1 and received 2 FTE.  Put it on #2 and had zero issues.  With the weight of the gun, recoil is very light...........at least to me it is.  And honestly, the thumbhole stock is not as bad as I thought it would be.

 

Now there is something weird about this modified MI Clone mount in having to press down on the rear section of the mount when flipping the clamp lever over to get it to go on straight and line up with the bore.  If you do not do this, it will be canted to the right ever so slightly.  Both myself and mancat can replicate this on our M77s with the modified MI Mount. 

 

I am not really sold on the repeatability of using this method to put the mount on, take it off, and put it back on and it returning to zero although I have not tested it out yet.......only going with my gut.

 

Sure if you are going to put the mount on the firearm and leave it on indefinitely it would be fine but IMO that is not the purpose of the side mount (meant for breakdown-ability).

 

I am currently looking at going down the TWS route for my M77.

 

-bp

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can use a standard POSP scope with SVD mount if you remove the stop pin, and then add a new one.  This is what I did with the extra one I had laying around.

 

Drilled, tapped, and hex head plug loc-tited in place.

P1030374%20(Large).JPG

 

On the rifle

P1030378%20(Large).JPG

 

and a pic of my rug

P1030379%20(Large).JPG

 

I only have a couple hundred rounds through it, but it has held zero thus far.

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