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Bulgarian "Slr 12" possibility?


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Ok first post but longtime reader. I could not find where this has been discussed. What are the chances that a certain Bulgarian/Las Vegas arms manufacturer brings a replacement shotgun to market? I would think now would be the time. Keeping the same specs snd dimensions could also soften the blow the aftermarket is gonna take.

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theres chinese ones already here on the market and all the ruskies need to do is change the parent company name. Not a real big deal if they "need" to sell them to us. For that certain company to make them they would have to charge an arm and a leg because of the cost of the bolt. Its been discussed before. Certain individual parts break the bank here

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I see. Well maybe the chinese shotguns can fix the few obvious things that would make it a better firearm (compatibility, magwell dimensions, key components made stronger etc) and it would be an attractive option. I currently own a Vepr 12 and a Saiga 12 but it's such a solid platform I hate to see it disappear..

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I see. Well maybe the chinese shotguns can fix the few obvious things that would make it a better firearm (compatibility, magwell dimensions, key components made stronger etc) and it would be an attractive option. I currently own a Vepr 12 and a Saiga 12 but it's such a solid platform I hate to see it disappear..

 

I don't intend to let my Saiga 12 disappear. I've spent a lot of time and money getting it to run like a machine. I love it and it isn't going anywhere.

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A milled one would be very interesting. A Serbian built 12 gauge in the ak platform would be too. I really hope more Serbian weapons make it over here before something happens to that source also. I know I'm eager to get my hands on one in 7.62x54r and an m90 or m95 (5.56 rifle). But I digress. The market is wide open now, someone just needs to fill the void and I hope it's filled with a product we can all use our same mags, furniture etc. with.

 

 

I see. Well maybe the chinese shotguns can fix the few obvious things that would make it a better firearm (compatibility, magwell dimensions, key components made stronger etc) and it would be an attractive option. I currently own a Vepr 12 and a Saiga 12 but it's such a solid platform I hate to see it disappear..

I don't intend to let my Saiga 12 disappear. I've spent a lot of time and money getting it to run like a machine. I love it and it isn't going anywhere.

I should have said that a different way. My Saigas and Veprs are my babies! I would never sell them. I only meant the steady flow of new Saigas and Veprs coming to shore are disappearing/has disappeared. Makes me wish I had bought two of every russian gun I own.

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I wouldn't count on it.  Way too much R&D and upfront costs for the Bulgarians to start up a replacement to the Saiga.

 

They would need new machining tools, new materials, new everything.  All to replace one firearm that, sad to say, is a niche in the US market and otherwise not too popular.  Or, they could just keep cranking out AKs for the world.

 

I think the odds of a US-made S12 replacement are greater, but those are also not good odds.

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I think your going to see shotguns based off the AR-10 lower first.. And maybe down the road a US made Saiga.

 

And its totally possible for someone to tool up to make Saiga-12s.. Its not as complicated as people make it seem.

 

Plenty of CNC mills can make the shapes of the bolt and carrier better than the Russians.. Its not a complicated design.

 

Parts we have in the states:

Trigger groups

Complete furniture sets

Trigger guards

Muzzle devices

Piston puck

Op rods

Gas adjustment plug

Magazine catch

Firing pins

 

What we need:

Barrels (green mountain should be able to make them)

Bolt carriers (R&R makes some already)

Bolts  (R&R was making some)

Trunions

Ejector block

Receiver (4140 sheet water jet or blanked)

Extractors

Gas blocks

Gas tube

Rear sight block.

 

These parts are actually fairly simple to make. My CNC guy just sold a mill capable of making the bolts and carriers for something like $80K. Could self feed bar stock up to 20 feet long and could make fairly large parts lights out.

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I've personally lost all interest in obtaining more foreign firearms in the wake of this BS and I don't think I'm the only one out there that has (there is a reason that I never got into ARs and this is it... I figured I would have more time to do so). I think something like where csspecs is going would be much more likely to be a winner in the market place and much more difficult to legislate away.

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I think your going to see shotguns based off the AR-10 lower first.. And maybe down the road a US made Saiga.

 

And its totally possible for someone to tool up to make Saiga-12s.. Its not as complicated as people make it seem.

 

Plenty of CNC mills can make the shapes of the bolt and carrier better than the Russians.. Its not a complicated design.

 

Parts we have in the states:

Trigger groups

Complete furniture sets

Trigger guards

Muzzle devices

Piston puck

Op rods

Gas adjustment plug

Magazine catch

Firing pins

 

What we need:

Barrels (green mountain should be able to make them)

Bolt carriers (R&R makes some already)

Bolts  (R&R was making some)

Trunions

Ejector block

Receiver (4140 sheet water jet or blanked)

Extractors

Gas blocks

Gas tube

Rear sight block.

 

These parts are actually fairly simple to make. My CNC guy just sold a mill capable of making the bolts and carriers for something like $80K. Could self feed bar stock up to 20 feet long and could make fairly large parts lights out.

CSS,

  PER-FUCKING-ZACTLY, AS I SAID ON ANOTHER THREAD, MY FRIEND!

 

   FUCK 'TANG AND HIS DISCIPLES.

 

   GET YOUR COLLECTIVE LOWER LIPS UP OFF YOUR BOOT TOPS AND SPIT SOME T'BACKER JUICE IN HIS EYE.

 

   MAKE HIM CRY, MAKE HIM CURL UP IN A FETAL BALL, UNDER HIS DESK, CRYING FOR HIS CUM-SLURPIN' MOMMY, AND A DADDY THAT WOULDN'T PISS ON HIM IF HE WAS ON FIRE.

 

   IF YOU NEED TO, LOOK UPON IT AS A RESISTANCE MOVEMENT; A SHARP STICK IN HIS EYE, AND THE EYES OF ALL WHO SUBSCRIBE TO HIS BELIEF SYSTEM.

 

   CSS, YOU OUTLINED WHAT WE ALREADY MAKE HERE, AND WHAT WE WILL NEED TO MAKE HERE.

 

   IF YOUR LIST IS COMPREHENSIVE, AND IT SEEMS TO BE, WE'RE ONLY 5 PARTS AWAY FROM HAVING FROM HAVING AK'S AND S/V-12'S.

 

   SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, IS MAKING EVERYTHING ELSE.

 

   YOU GUYS THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE STUFF ON THE NEED LIST SHOULD GET TOGETHER, SEE WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE WHAT, THE EASIEST, QUICKEST, AND CHEAPEST, AND GO FORWARD.

 

   A STANDARDIZED SET OF PRINTS AND SPECS TO WORK FROM IS ESSENTIAL.

 

   CAN ANY/ALL OF THESE PARTS BE 3D-PRINTED OFF WITH THESE NEW PRINTERS, THAT WILL KNOCK DOWN A LOT OF THE BULLSHIT.

 

   LETS ROLL.............

 

   JESS1344

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CSSPECS, I was saying the same thing the other day. Lots of vendors have already made parts that even a couple years ago seemed a dream to have US made. Hopefully everyone can kind of collaborate enough that the parts can become standardized and we can build them from the ground up with in the next 3 (?) years.

 

Is there enough money in it to make it worthwhile though?

Edited by Lord Ak-47
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This is not a design that takes any special tools to produce. Every part can be made in any decent machine shop that repairs printing machinery. Most City's have at least one print oriented shops so I use them as an example. What makes it so expensive right now, is that each part is too expensive to make as one off or small run.

We need someone with deep enough pockets to set up a dedicated line to produce the entire gun. Until someone can see a profit to make these (and the parts!) in enough volume to pay the tooling off we will not see any significant drop in the prices and availability of either the guns or the parts.

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