Wooden handguards - Talk to me, guys

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Ok folks, in response to massive interest from this forum, I put a lot of time and effort into designing and building wooden handguards for the Saiga-12. Here is a picture showing the most advanced designs I have.

 

These have been made in response to the input from forum members on what they'd like to see in a Saiga-12 wooden handguard. They include an updated Schnabel style made because the Schnabel was the most requested style one at a time. Also something pretty close to a picture of a Russian specimen. They include the frequently requested vents. And they're made from beech, the original Saiga 308 wood that is strong, hard, and finishes very smoothly.

 

The less advanced styles I did a while back were requested faster than I could make them. I figured that a little bit of initiative in designing something new would bring a lot of interest.

 

Well I've gotten lots of compliments, but practically no buyers. Pretty much everything I've sold since the summer has been to repeat customers, which is great, but I need new buyers too. Meanwhile fat grips are selling faster than I can make them, and I'm pounded with requests for the same style of vented handguard for standard AKs and dragunov style stocks for stamped AKs and Romak IIIs, both of which are a bit farther from what I've focused on thus far.

 

So I just need some honest feedback here - is anyone still interested in wooden handguards for Saiga-12s?

 

I know what one response will be - folks want standard AK furniture. Fact is that there are feasibility limits to what will fit and if something requires too much modification or interference with an original system (ie sites) it won't sell, even if one or two people are willing to do it. So I've tried to make the closest thing possible to a standard AKM handguard for a Saiga-12.

 

Then there are guys who ask about rail attachments. I have never had the impression that wood is a good material to attach rails to.

 

So the whole point of this whole verbose post is does anyone still want realistic wooden furniture for the Saiga-12?

 

It seems to me that there are these possibilities:

1. Everyone who wanted it has already gotten it. The market's saturated.

 

2. The price is too high. Sad fact is that this isn't cheap in materials or time, so there's really no way to significantly lower the price. I have done my best to streamline design and manufacturing so that it is less tiring and time comsuming and thus the current offerings are a lot more for the money than my earlier ones.

 

3. Each individual person wants something different from what is shown, and my holding off on taking custom orders while I relocate (which is finished) has silenced them. If that is the case, then TALK TO ME.

 

4. People don't want to mismatch a wooden handguard onto an unconverted Saiga with synth stock, and are thus waiting for a complete matching set. My assumption was that a number of buyers would have their Saigas converted and would prefer a lower priced and more authentic AK buttstock and a different grip of their choice. In response to this possibility, I've been working on a number of AK buttstocks as well as a slightly updated pattern for my quasi-p-grip stock for unconverted Saigas. BUT - if this is in fact correct, TALK TO ME. Because based on other interest, the stamped AK buttstocks could sell out elsewhere pretty dang fast. If combined pricing is a question, I have to say that there is no way a matching hardwood set, either three piece or two, will go for under $100.

 

5. People have changed their minds to preferring an entirely tactical configuration for their S-12s. If you are waiting on new imports to have dual Saigas, one for sport and one for defense and would then be interested, TALK TO ME.

 

6. People have wanted such furniture for their S-20s and not realized that S-12 furniture should fit, and if you absolutely want me to make absolutely sure, and if so you'll buy some, there is an S-20 that I can test it on. So TALK TO ME.

 

7. The forum has lost membership, some of whom were those interested.

 

8. I have offended everybody with the occasional rant on non-paying buyers. If this is the case then please accept my humblest apologies. Focusing on production items and preparing a better policy for custom work is what I'm doing now. You have to understand though that many gun owners are sick of people taking their money for a product that doesn't yet exist. I had to be different if I was going to get anywhere. I did, I've seen the best and the worst of gun buyers, and now I have a reputation for honest dealings that puts me in a better position to take money before the fact.

 

So, long story short I need your feedback to determine whether to put any more effort into Saiga-12 wooden furniture. If your answer is a new idea of something to make, fact is that's what got me here in the first place. If you're the only person who wants a certain thing and will pay accordingly, then we can talk.

 

If you only want more gun porn to look at and aren't going to buy anything, just want to see it made, then may I suggest photoshop. I've photoshopped concepts and folks have thought they were real at times.

 

So I'm just looking for honest answers to determine whether to put any more efforts into Saiga-12 furniture, and 308 not too far behind it. Just the truth, no hard feelings.

[mickporno 0]

dood....the wooden furniture rocks....i'm not in the market for anything like that but i know you could build a fuckin' gorgeous saiga with that stuff you're making....hope you find some customers. if i ever did pick up a 2nd saiga i'd definitely consider outfitting it with some of your stuff.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I think it looks pretty cool. I can't imagine how much time that must take to make. I would never want to tackle a project like that, but I hate working with wood anyway.

 

I must comment on #3..........That is SO TRUE. It doesn't seem to matter how many friggin options you have, there are a lot of customers that just want you to change it. I think it might give them a sense of satisfaction of being part of the "design". I once had 15 custom big bore AR-15 uppers in stock and ready to ship. Every one of them in a different configuration. Not a SINGLE friggin upper was sold in its built up configuration. I had to part out EVERY ONE of them and rebuild them to sell them.

 

I made the mistake of telling the customers exactly what I had in stock.........which gave them a "reason" to change it. If I had just taken their order, some of them would have asked for something that I already had in stock. That's when I went to build-to-order only. I keep nothing in stock.

 

Then of course I get the calls......."well what do you have in stock?" They want to know, so they can get the satisfaction of having me change it.

 

I would just laugh......I don't play that game anymore.

Edited January 27, 2006 by TonyRumore

[gunboy69 50]

I've heard you offer to make stuff for people before,but I had never seen any of your work before. You are very talented! Do you have a web site or catalog I could buy. I would like to see a three piece set,or see a

S-12 outfitted with your work. I've recently been on K-VAR looking for a blonde wood set to start another conversion. I love your pistol grips, I have an ergo on my personal S-12, but I don't care for the standard

wood AK grip that comes with a wood set. I can understand your concern, that looks like a hell of a lot of work, and patience put into those pieces. I would like to know more about prices for a three piece set.

You figure on spending $80.00 or more plus shipping for something I'm not crazy about, or spend $100 plus

for something custom you love. So with more info I'm interested.

[Illumini 0]

I think if you show some Saigas with your pieces on painted ect ppl would get a better idea of how they look on. Cobra's guns look pretty cool, the blonde one looks great. Making the saiga look like an AK74 is a stock set that would grab some attention.

 

mmmmm Blondes

[scoutjoe 276]

personally i would like to get a stock set..a handguard with a buttstock. The styles look good but i personally haven't had the $ to get one. And no i'm not crying about your price, i know how much clear wood can go for so for what your charging it is a good deal.

 

hopefully when i get some $ this summer you'll still be making the handguards and have a buttstock to go with them.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

Make me a handguard that looks like the Saiga-12K, or Saiga rifle line, is near exactly the same mounting wise, but the wooden equivalent, and I'd buy the hell out of that.

[6500rpm 670]

One thing that migt help would be pictures of the items mounted (and preferably finished) on the gun. If you don't own all the guns you make stuff for, possibly customers could post pictures on their guns. Hell, most people like to show their shit off, especially unique things. If the next batch of Saiga's shows up, start getting your adds out. My first rig is done, but if I got another, a wood handguard and pistol grip with a fixed ACE skelleton stock might be pretty cool (but I'd still like to see a picture of your stuff mounted on someones gun first, Im having trouble visualizing the handguard without the cap and in terms of lenght without having something to reference it against). Hey, from what I can see the quality looks fine and the price isn't bad at all. Don't get discouraged, it's not you.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Dodge, that is definitely doable, that is a rifle style handguard for the S-12.

 

It is true that I don't have all the guns I make stocks for, specifically an S-12. I can model some on a friend's S-20 though if you guys have patience.

 

I do not have a website or a catalog. All of my dealings are through this and other forums. Other forums I do are AKfiles, Gunco, and Arf.com

 

And if I hadn't learned to laugh, I'd have quite possibly given myself some sort of permanent neurological condition.

Edited January 28, 2006 by BattleRifleG3

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

If it looks like the handguard on the S-12K on the home page of this website, and mounts decent.

 

I'll will pay.....

[red_cedar 28]

Pictures to what they look like on a S-12 will definately help.

Would it be possible to take a picture of each style on the same S-12, you wouldnt need different S-12's

 

And will add that I have been intested in wood for a while, but am just busy with a lot of other things to keep up with everything.

Edited January 28, 2006 by red_cedar

[G O B 3,516]

BRG3-- Your shnit is THE SHNIT!!!!!! Hang in guy, times is tough. The quality of your work will eventually sell it's self. Have you tryed Blackjack to see if he will stock some of your standard stuff? Probably involve a discount for volume. Get your shnit out there, the world cannot beat a path to your door untill they know you are there.

 

 

 

G O B

[ozone_00 3]

Well, I don't have a S12 yet, hope to have one by the end of February, it'd be a month or two after that til I convert to PG, at which time I would definitly be interested in a matching set. That would be damn sexy.

Edited January 28, 2006 by ozone_00

[Saiga Saga 7]

I agree with the above posters we need pics of furniture mounted on a Saiga. Don't get me wrong it looks like good quality stuff, but our imagination can only do so much.

[ForGreatJustice 1]

Question, BRG3...can you do a Romanian style slanted vertical foregrip for the S-12? It would need to be pretty minimalist near the front so that a barrel-mount light could be clamped right next to the gas-block and actuated with fingers from the VFG.

 

Quote me, if you can. Or let me know if you can't do it. VFG solutions for the S-12 are rare...

[Citizen 0]

wood is sexy...i like what you have. You ought to finish it in either blonde or that dark red/burgandy (romanian?) and mount it up. Lets see what the finish product looks like....*ready to drool*

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Question, BRG3...can you do a Romanian style slanted vertical foregrip for the S-12? It would need to be pretty minimalist near the front so that a barrel-mount light could be clamped right next to the gas-block and actuated with fingers from the VFG.

 

Quote me, if you can. Or let me know if you can't do it. VFG solutions for the S-12 are rare...

 

That is an affirmative, but would need to work out some dimensional details with interested folks. Price won't be cheap but will ultimately reflect a good deal considering the sum of its parts.

[flcracker 0]

BRG3 - check your PM and email, Sir - I'm interested in a forestock.

 

flcracker

[ForGreatJustice 1]

 

That is an affirmative, but would need to work out some dimensional details with interested folks. Price won't be cheap but will ultimately reflect a good deal considering the sum of its parts.

 

 

Excellent. I would certainly expect to pay a bit more than the price point your previous work has been set at, considering the extra operations needed.

[Griz 1]

Wooden furniture looks wonderful on Saiga 12's. Breathes life into the weapon. The beech is the best. It is denser and heavier and tougher and takes a stain or sealer quite well.

 

 

The craftsmanship is first rate and once I get a digital camera I will take pictures and after I learn how to post them, I will do just that!

-Griz

[BattleRifleG3 16]

That is an affirmative, but would need to work out some dimensional details with interested folks. Price won't be cheap but will ultimately reflect a good deal considering the sum of its parts.

Excellent. I would certainly expect to pay a bit more than the price point your previous work has been set at, considering the extra operations needed.

For a ballpark idea of pricing, just add prices of grips and prices of handguards.

 

Griz here is among my most favorite customers.

[RDSWriter 5]

I am VERY interested in them, but have been reluctant without a buttstock. I like the ACE stuff, but other than the orginal underfolders... I not a big fan of wood with a metal or synthetic stock.

[Ronswin 26]

Ok folks, in response to massive interest from this forum, I put a lot of time and effort into designing and building wooden handguards for the Saiga-12. Here is a picture showing the most advanced designs I have.

 

These have been made in response to the input from forum members on what they'd like to see in a Saiga-12 wooden handguard. They include an updated Schnabel style made because the Schnabel was the most requested style one at a time. Also something pretty close to a picture of a Russian specimen. They include the frequently requested vents. And they're made from beech, the original Saiga 308 wood that is strong, hard, and finishes very smoothly.

 

The less advanced styles I did a while back were requested faster than I could make them. I figured that a little bit of initiative in designing something new would bring a lot of interest.

 

Well I've gotten lots of compliments, but practically no buyers. Pretty much everything I've sold since the summer has been to repeat customers, which is great, but I need new buyers too. Meanwhile fat grips are selling faster than I can make them, and I'm pounded with requests for the same style of vented handguard for standard AKs and dragunov style stocks for stamped AKs and Romak IIIs, both of which are a bit farther from what I've focused on thus far.

 

So I just need some honest feedback here - is anyone still interested in wooden handguards for Saiga-12s?

 

I know what one response will be - folks want standard AK furniture. Fact is that there are feasibility limits to what will fit and if something requires too much modification or interference with an original system (ie sites) it won't sell, even if one or two people are willing to do it. So I've tried to make the closest thing possible to a standard AKM handguard for a Saiga-12.

 

Then there are guys who ask about rail attachments. I have never had the impression that wood is a good material to attach rails to.

 

So the whole point of this whole verbose post is does anyone still want realistic wooden furniture for the Saiga-12?

 

It seems to me that there are these possibilities:

1. Everyone who wanted it has already gotten it. The market's saturated.

 

2. The price is too high. Sad fact is that this isn't cheap in materials or time, so there's really no way to significantly lower the price. I have done my best to streamline design and manufacturing so that it is less tiring and time comsuming and thus the current offerings are a lot more for the money than my earlier ones.

 

3. Each individual person wants something different from what is shown, and my holding off on taking custom orders while I relocate (which is finished) has silenced them. If that is the case, then TALK TO ME.

 

4. People don't want to mismatch a wooden handguard onto an unconverted Saiga with synth stock, and are thus waiting for a complete matching set. My assumption was that a number of buyers would have their Saigas converted and would prefer a lower priced and more authentic AK buttstock and a different grip of their choice. In response to this possibility, I've been working on a number of AK buttstocks as well as a slightly updated pattern for my quasi-p-grip stock for unconverted Saigas. BUT - if this is in fact correct, TALK TO ME. Because based on other interest, the stamped AK buttstocks could sell out elsewhere pretty dang fast. If combined pricing is a question, I have to say that there is no way a matching hardwood set, either three piece or two, will go for under $100.

 

5. People have changed their minds to preferring an entirely tactical configuration for their S-12s. If you are waiting on new imports to have dual Saigas, one for sport and one for defense and would then be interested, TALK TO ME.

 

6. People have wanted such furniture for their S-20s and not realized that S-12 furniture should fit, and if you absolutely want me to make absolutely sure, and if so you'll buy some, there is an S-20 that I can test it on. So TALK TO ME.

 

7. The forum has lost membership, some of whom were those interested.

 

8. I have offended everybody with the occasional rant on non-paying buyers. If this is the case then please accept my humblest apologies. Focusing on production items and preparing a better policy for custom work is what I'm doing now. You have to understand though that many gun owners are sick of people taking their money for a product that doesn't yet exist. I had to be different if I was going to get anywhere. I did, I've seen the best and the worst of gun buyers, and now I have a reputation for honest dealings that puts me in a better position to take money before the fact.

 

So, long story short I need your feedback to determine whether to put any more effort into Saiga-12 wooden furniture. If your answer is a new idea of something to make, fact is that's what got me here in the first place. If you're the only person who wants a certain thing and will pay accordingly, then we can talk.

 

If you only want more gun porn to look at and aren't going to buy anything, just want to see it made, then may I suggest photoshop. I've photoshopped concepts and folks have thought they were real at times.

 

So I'm just looking for honest answers to determine whether to put any more efforts into Saiga-12 furniture, and 308 not too far behind it. Just the truth, no hard feelings.

 

Battlerifle,

Have you considered any of the stocks pictured above done in black nylon? I assuming you can shape most plastics like you can wood. If so, I would be interested big time.

 

RonSwin

[kmoore 3]

I'm not a fan of wood. I'd likely swap to something more black and plastic.

 

I do admire your work. Chimed in here to say I think you are right when you guess that a lot of customers who wanted them already got them. I think that should end as soon as the new Saiga's hit the market. Fresh blood should generate new demand, so I'd not abandon the concept.

[Eric86GT 0]

BRG3,

I hope to pick up a Saiga 12 in the next few months and if I do I will buy one of your wood forends.

[fullchoke 0]

BRG3

I sam intrested I sent you a PM Yesterday

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Got PMs and eventually noticed my box full. Cleaned it out again, so anyone who couldn't PM me can again. Thanks all!

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Battlerifle,

Have you considered any of the stocks pictured above done in black nylon? I assuming you can shape most plastics like you can wood. If so, I would be interested big time.

 

Do you have a source for plastic stock in the right size? If so, I could try my hand at it. Can't say for sure what the surface would be like texturewise but it wouldn't be particularly bad.

[M15A4spr 0]

Feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

Dodge, that is definitely doable, that is a rifle style handguard for the S-12.

 

It is true that I don't have all the guns I make stocks for, specifically an S-12. I can model some on a friend's S-20 though if you guys have patience.

 

I do not have a website or a catalog. All of my dealings are through this and other forums. Other forums I do are AKfiles, Gunco, and Arf.com

 

And if I hadn't learned to laugh, I'd have quite possibly given myself some sort of permanent neurological condition.

For me, its cost. I just can't drop +100 on "options" right now. Not bitching about your prices, they sound more than fair, this is just where I am.

 

I agree with several of the other posters here, photos of 'finished' gear would probably help move your product. "Fredrics of Hollywood" sells by displaying their product "in the field" . Follow success

 

Here's an offer for you. Your ISP probably offers you "X" megs of free space along with your connection. If you want, I can build up a basic website for you (no charge, just trying to be helpful) to show off your stuff. PM me if you want to take me up on it.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I'll take that offer very seriously, and look into options. I may change ISPs soon. Could possibly consider paying you with a wee tad bit of Saiga furniture.

 

Mental image: Folks on sidewalk saying "Will work for Saiga furniture"

Edited February 2, 2006 by BattleRifleG3