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Mass Police Chiefs Want Complete Control of 2A Rights


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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/24/police-chiefs-gun-rights-advocates-at-odds-over-discretion-in-massachusetts/

 

Massachusetts police chiefs rally for right to control long-gun permits
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By Joshua Rhett Miller

Published July 24, 2014
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Boston Police Commissioner William Evans, as well as the city’s former top cop, Ed Davis, and other police chiefs from across The Bay State rallied at the Statehouse on Tuesday, blasting state senators for removing a provision granting them authority to deny firearms identification cards to individuals they deem unsuitable to own shotguns and rifles – discretion they already have regarding handgun licenses. (AP)

Police chiefs in Massachusetts are blasting state lawmakers for shooting down a provision that would have given them sole discretion over who can get hunting rifle or shotgun permits, regardless of criminal records.

The Bay State, which has some of the nation's toughest gun laws, has long left it up to a community's top cop to sign off on handgun permits. Lawmakers were considering extending that to include the Firearms Identification Card, or FID, needed to possess long guns. But lawmakers, leery of the constitutionality of the law, which critics say can result in law-abiding citizens being denied their Second Amendment rights, have stripped a proposed bill of that provision. This week, police chiefs from throughout the state and gun control advocates converged on the Statehouse in Boston to blast state senators for removing the provision.

“Our position is really very, very simple,” said Wayne Sampson, executive director of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association. “We, as an association, believe that it’s unconscionable that if we determine a person is unsuitable to carry a handgun, that they can then turn around and apply for a Firearms Identification Card, which allows them, by law, to purchase rifles and shotguns. And there’s no way we can impose any restrictions on that. It just doesn’t make sense.”

"It’s all about public safety."

- Wayne Sampson, executive director, Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association

Sampson, who attended Tuesday’s rally along with Boston Police Commissioner William Evans, the city’s former top cop, Ed Davis, and several other chiefs, told FoxNews.com that the organization’s 351 chiefs are willing to work with legislators to find a compromise, but stressed that no one else in the state’s patchwork of towns and communities has a better grasp of who is fit to possess firearms.

“In our smaller communities, it’s very easy to check how many responses we’ve received for a certain address,” he said. “We know whether it’s a parent or a child having problems, or if it’s a domestic situation [involving a gun]. These are things that are very legitimate for us to take into consideration. It’s all about public safety.”

Davis cited an incident during Tuesday's rally regarding a man who killed an 80-year-old victim and then held a police officer hostage using a shotgun after he was issued an FID card. Davis, he said, learned that the man had mental problems only after the incident.

The state’s local affiliate of the National Rifle Association, meanwhile, strongly favors the Senate version of the bill that removes that measure, and noted other key provisions it contains, including requiring schools to develop plans for students with mental health needs and increased penalties for certain firearm violations.

“Massachusetts police chiefs have had discretionary ability [to issue handgun permits] for decades here and the system has been pretty widely abused as far as suitability goes because it’s left up to the chief to decide,” said Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners’ Action League. “Some chiefs say they just don’t hand out those licenses, or some are granted for target and hunting purposes only.”

Asked if he had constitutional concerns regarding the House version of the bill, Wallace told FoxNews.com: “I don’t see how you could see otherwise.”

Both chambers named three members apiece to a conference committee on the legislation, including four Democrats and two Republicans. They will now have until next Thursday to reconcile the House and Senate versions of the bill.

State Sen. James Timilty, D-Walpole, said while it’s clear that police chiefs want more authority regarding Firearms Identification Cards, it remains foggy how that will be done without violating rights guaranteed under the Second Amendment.

"The issues of FID suitability, MSBA security upgrades, increased penalties for committing gun crimes, and expanded tools for district attorneys to keep pre-trial violent offenders off the streets are just some of the differences in the Senate and House bills to reduce gun violence,” Timilty said in a statement to FoxNews.com. “I look forward to working with my Senate and House colleagues to come to a consensus on this important piece of legislation so we can make our schools and streets safer.”

Some critics of the Senate bill, meanwhile, accused state lawmakers of “caving into” pressure from gun lobbying groups like the NRA.

“The Massachusetts Senate has chosen to support the NRA over public safety and law enforcement,” said John Rosenthal, founder of Stop Handgun Violence. “It’s as clear as day.”

As a gun owner himself, Rosenthal said long guns can be just as dangerous — possibly more — than handguns.

“Any gun owner will tell you that you can do as much damage from a distance, or even more damage, with a long gun than you could with a handgun,” Rosenthal told FoxNews.com. “There needs to be recognition that a deadly weapon is a deadly weapon, whether it has a long barrel or a short barrel.”

 

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Fuck them. Those chiefs must be ego maniacs if they think they are qualified to determine who should have the right to bear arms. That alone should DQ them from owning and carrying any firearms.

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“Our position is really very, very simple,” said Wayne Sampson, executive director of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association. “We, as an association, believe that it’s unconscionable that if we determine a person is unsuitable to carry a handgun, that they can then turn around and apply for a Firearms Identification Card, which allows them, by law, to purchase rifles and shotguns. And there’s no way we can impose any restrictions on that. It just doesn’t make sense.”

 

Here is one of the most egregious statements I've seen in a while.

This shithead is so comfortable and accustomed to ignoring the rights of the people he is outraged when the legislature doesn't hand HIM unbridled power over us.

 

Fucking little tyrant. He doesn't even know how fucked up he is.

 

Who does this cocksucker think he is?

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They are a part of the entitlement crowd. They seem to think they are entitled to take our liberties in the false guise of public safety. They also ignore the facts. The sad fact is that these assholes will never cease to exist.

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Must be nice to be so God like where you know the future and the needs of everyone, so guess that means the Minority Report thing is real. On the other hand if you already know what's going to happen and who'll need a gun how is there still crime in your city?

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Must be nice to be so God like where you know the future and the needs of everyone, so guess that means the Minority Report thing is real. On the other hand if you already know what's going to happen and who'll need a gun how is there still crime in your city?

I actually met Penn Jillette in a coffee shop on the strip in Las Vegas. I can say this for the man, hangs with some damn good looking women.

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As someone in MA I'll say this whole string of legislation has been draining. They actually had public hearings to get both sides opinions on further gun control (pretty much any pro-gun ideas were tossed out in the end), in one of the last hearings regarding the legislation the suitability info was brought up. Statistics were given that over the last 4 years of recorded data, there were only 3 unlicensed shotgun homicides and 2 unlicensed rifle homicides. All happened regardless of licensing and would not have been stopped by adding that suitability statute to law, the people proposing it even admitted it would do nothing, yet they still added it. Yet people around here still say "nobody is coming for your guns", sure they aren't.

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As someone in MA I'll say this whole string of legislation has been draining. They actually had public hearings to get both sides opinions on further gun control (pretty much any pro-gun ideas were tossed out in the end), in one of the last hearings regarding the legislation the suitability info was brought up. Statistics were given that over the last 4 years of recorded data, there were only 3 unlicensed shotgun homicides and 2 unlicensed rifle homicides. All happened regardless of licensing and would not have been stopped by adding that suitability statute to law, the people proposing it even admitted it would do nothing, yet they still added it. Yet people around here still say "nobody is coming for your guns", sure they aren't.

I've been through it here in CO.  It IS very draining.  They want to drain you.  Be strong.  Keep calling.

I was fucking wore out after all the calls, e-mails, facebook bashing, then watching hour after hour of the hearings all to have them turn a deaf ear and do what the fuck they wanted to in the end.

 

That said...  Two of the fuckers are job hunting now and they just studied how the gun bills are working after spending three million dollars on this fuckin shit.

 

I'll paraphrase...  Co expected 450k people to go through Colorado Bureau of Investigation (expanded background check) in the 2 years after the laws passed.  1 year after passing, a whopping 13k have gone through CBI.  When questioned on these numbers, co-sponsor Rhonda Fields said she deemed the numbers a success and that she felt the numbers reflected people abiding by the new laws.  Are you fucking kidding me?  13k in the whole state of CO?  She's got to be fucking high.  People aren't obeying.  Especially if they know the person.  That face to face is a done deal for sure, laws be damned.

 

As far as the 15 round mag limits...  I can get mags any time I want and at many LGS'.  Can't get mags or even mag kits on the net as people that don't even live here are fucking scared.

 

Both laws are an over reaching fucking joke.  Stick to your guns VR and talk to anyone that will listen.  

 

I haven't been to MA. in many years, so I'm not certain as to whether you have the will of the people that CO has.  If they pass, and they more than likely will, you have a hard choice to make.  Move, or disobey.  Most of this will depend on how heavy the hammer drops.

Edited by Big John!
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I haven't been to MA. in many years, so I'm not certain as to whether you have the will of the people that CO has.  If they pass, and they more than likely will, you have a hard choice to make.  Move, or disobey.  Most of this will depend on how heavy the hammer drops.

 

 

Well, I hear what your saying with CO, John. I was reading up on the figures they were using too and even with what they are stating they're still using funny numbers. I guess online sales sent to FFLs are being counted in the 13k figure, which already were undergoing background checks before but are being counted as part of those done with the new law. So they are off even more than they're willing to admit. There really is no fight here in MA for me, more for just attempting to stop additional overreach. As I am a CCW holder, I already have done background check and all that fun stuff as permitted by my local licensing authority. We can't buy anything in this state without some form of Gov approval. Have made the case with the wife of a move the 20 miles north to NH. We now have a baby on the way so she doesn't want to move away from family. I have explained to her how this civil rights battle has been going, some of the early bill (where they were requiring registration of firearms owned at every license renewal) scared her, as she is also a CCW permit holder. Hoping that we get a win out of this one, as my state senator has been a key part in stopping some of the crap thrown in (a very well established pro-2A guy in liberal MA, can't really ask for more around here) but the House Rep. has basically said "Fuck you, I'm doing what my party says I should" I'll keep fighting here, you do the same there and if it goes too far, the move may be required. Don't want my future son/daughter to grow up in this ass backward pool of scum, if I can help it.

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It seems to me that a 20 mile move would not be as hard to handle as many of us have.  I have no family keeping me here, so I can go whenever I want to deal with all the BS of a big move.  Problem for me is that the wife and I have very differing opinions on where to go.

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Fuck them. Those chiefs must be ego maniacs if they think they are qualified to determine who should have the right to bear arms. That alone should DQ them from owning and carrying any firearms.

The motherfuckers are probably DemocRATs. It's sickening to see the birthplace of the American Revolution become such a police state. The people there celebrated Islam after the Islamic terror attack during the Boston Marathon.

 

I just got back from Boston.  I fucking hate the whole east coast.

I was in Boston twice and both times I hated it. The people are the rudest and most arrogant assholes I ever saw in my life. No fucking manners at all. I was glad to get out of there and I remember the Rube Goldberg machines in the Delta Terminal at Logan Airport. Their liberal mentality reflects the Rube Goldberg devices in the terminal. they complicate everything.

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I work with a lot of guys from Mass - mostly Mass Maritime grads. Some of them have the biggest mouths and attitudes you'll ever hear - worse than New Yorkers by far. Start talking about guns, and you'll get to hear about how "only pussies need a gun" and so on and so forth.

 

I've never been able to figure out how so many people with that northeast tough guy attitude will bend right over as soon as it comes to their government telling them what to do.

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I've never been able to figure out how so many people with that northeast tough guy attitude will bend right over as soon as it comes to their government telling them what to do.

 

They're " Massholes", what in other parts of the country are considered white trash. The tough guy with an asshole attitude that can beat up everyone and everything. The first people who will vote for a Dem and then rush to NH to avoid the Dem imposed tax increases. The majority of this state is absolute shit. Some areas north of Boston and a good part of western Mass are not so bad. The main population centers are in "Masshole" territory and that is why most people get to experience them

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