longhorn03 10 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 After thinking that I'm completely satisfied with my 308... I find a new annoyance, the weight of this beast. I love romping around my ranch in the woods with the rifle, shooting rabbits, pigs, deer (in season)... but my setup right now is so freaking heavy. I'm sure if I just carried it around long enough it would feel lighter, but my handguard is a tank, and I'm thinking of switching to poly. Originally I had a TAPCO Intrafuse, but those look cheap and are cheap. My saiga has the handgaurd in the stock configuration, as I saw no need to convert it to an AK style. What I have on it and what I've done. CSS Raptor folding stock CSS Tri Rail hand guard (heavy like a cinder block) RS Regulate AKML with Aimpoint.(not in attached pics, I took off top rail that is pictured bc of weight) Barrel cut, PWS FSC break installed. HK sight installed Pistol grip has negligible weight Any suggestions? I really like the Raptor stock, but I know going poly on handguard and the stock will make the biggest difference, also those steel mags aren't the lightest either, I usually hunt with just a 5 or 10 round mag. Any suggestions? I swear, between guns, golf, and fishing........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I would concentrate on the forearm. Throw the factory polymer on there and check the difference. Typically it is not the weight of the gun itself, it is the distribution of the weight that makes the gun seem too heavy. Extra weight on the front of the gun is going to make it feel way heavier than it is. Personally, I like the weight to be toward the butt stock as it seems to be more balanced for my shooting preferences. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Good idea. I'll try that first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) LONGHORN, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT FSC-30, AND HOW MUCH RECOIL REDUCTION DO YOU OBSERVE. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED ANY OTHER MUZZLE BRAKES ON IT, AND IF SO, HOW DID THEY COMPARE? I HAVE AN FSC-30 THAT I'M GOING TO PUT ON A SIG-556R, AND AM JUST CURIOUS HOW EFFICIENT IT IS. I HAVE A FSC-47 ON A '54R VEPR, AND IT REDUCES THE RECOIL TO NEAR 'BOUT A '39 AK. THE FSC-30 HAS ANOTHER "STAGE" TO IT; WONDERING WHAT HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE THAT MAKES. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DON'T MAKE THE FSC-30 IN 14X1LH FOR A DIRECT COMPARAISON. JESS1344 Edited July 25, 2014 by JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Jess, I like the FSC-30. I did not try any other brakes and I will not be able to because it's on there permanently. A permanent weld was necessary because I had the barrel cut down by Tac 47 and it needed to be just over legal length unless I wanted to go the SBR route. I love the rifle, just hate the weight on it. Maybe I need to go to the gym more often. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Try a standard AK forearm and buttstock, and switch your topcover to ribbed topcover. Not sure which AKML you have, but the rear-biased one makes a significant difference for weight distribution. I understand what Spacehog is saying about balance being the most important thing, but there is actually a point where added weight from balancing to the rear is a detriment. The standard AK stock is pretty light, and I tried a heavier stock, but it made things worse. Switching the topcover, using a rear-biased AKML, and using the lightweight standard AK forearm is enough to balance the weight slightly toward the rear even with the light buttstock. Mine weighs (if I recall correctly) 10 lbs. 10 ounces with loaded csspecs 20 round mag, 18 inch barrel, Battlecomp muzzle device, sling, and the other things mentioned above. It feels pretty wieldy. Edited July 25, 2014 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Try a standard AK forearm and buttstock, and switch your topcover to ribbed topcover. Not sure which AKML you have, but the rear-biased one makes a significant difference for weight distribution. I understand what Spacehog is saying about balance being the most important thing, but there is actually a point where added weight from balancing to the rear is a detriment. The standard AK stock is pretty light, and I tried a heavier stock, but it made things worse. Switching the topcover, using a rear-biased AKML, and using the lightweight standard AK forearm is enough to balance the weight slightly toward the rear even with the light buttstock. Mine weighs (if I recall correctly) 10 lbs. 10 ounces with loaded csspecs 20 round mag, 18 inch barrel, Battlecomp muzzle device, sling, and the other things mentioned above. It feels pretty wieldy. After reading Jim's comment above, I realize I may have been a little unclear. My point was to lose some of the weight on the front as you described it as "a cinder block", not add weight to the rear to "balance" out the rifle. My personal preference is to have a slightly weight backward weight balance, but too much certainly poses problems of its own. Just thought I would clarify. Good luck with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Lose the rails throw an ace skeleton stock on there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Not being a smart ass here seriously but... ... growing stronger helps more than anything. Weapon already appears to be about as light as it is going to be outside of a few ounces. Is that really going to make much difference? Only other thing I could mention that hasnt already is using smaller cap mags, 308 is on the heavy side.CS makes good ones. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Not being a smart ass here seriously but... ... growing stronger helps more than anything. Weapon already appears to be about as light as it is going to be outside of a few ounces. Is that really going to make much difference? Only other thing I could mention that hasnt already is using smaller cap mags, 308 is on the heavy side.CS makes good ones. Actually, this is sound advice. I knew from past experience from a previous .308 what to expect weight-wise, and I told myself to just suck it up because it's worth having a .308 caliber rifle. I'm not sure what your intended use for this rifle is, but unless you're LE/Military, I doubt weight should really be an issue. Range use, it shouldn't be a factor at all as you can lay it down whenever. Hunting? Now weight becomes a bit more of a factor, but when hunting, you don't lug around 20 round mags anyways. Typically 5 rounders. Also, if you don't feel comfortable carrying it around the woods, consider a different rifle. Perhaps bolt action. SHTF rifle? I would MUCH rather carry a bit extra weight than hope for the best with a smaller caliber. With all that said, a good sling goes a LONG way. By the looks of it, you're going for a battle rifle setup with your .308, so I'd look at options to keep it at the "low ready" position for SHTF, but hunting or range, a good 2 point. I'm making a DMR style out of mine, so 2 point sling will work just fine for me, but I'm strongly considering a picatinny mounted carry handle, but I really wanted a receiver rail scope mount, and the TWS dogleg rail would probably be the only option for a carry handle due to the balance point being right at the front trunnion area. I don't know what else to say other than it's definitely a beefier rifle which requires a stronger man. Do some push-ups. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 With all the benefits of a single point sling I just wont give up the two point. It just makes for a more stable shot that a single cannot no matter what handle is put on the front rail. So used to carrying a rifle in hasty mode I dont even notice it any longer. Yeah I know, dinosaur, but the physics are on my side. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Weapon already appears to be about as light as it is going to be outside of a few ounces. Is that really going to make much difference? Looks to me like he could shave at least 8-10 ounces off that rifle and rebalance it toward the rear. Yes, that will make a big difference. Another thing I didn't mention before is that a shorter stock helps pull the weight in closer to the body and make the total weight more bearable. That stock appears to be 2 inches longer than necessary. Edited July 26, 2014 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Whatever the guy wants, cheaper to just hit the weights for a few weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Im all about a light weight. I was contemplating turning the barrel on mine to match an ak47 and then a real ak handguard retainer. I got advice from reputial people against it. The ace Skelton stock is part derlin and party alu is pretty light and super strong. It will bolt right on place on your fun. Do that and the lose the rails and I bet you will be a pound lighter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 Not being a smart ass here seriously but... ... growing stronger helps more than anything. Weapon already appears to be about as light as it is going to be outside of a few ounces. Is that really going to make much difference? Only other thing I could mention that hasnt already is using smaller cap mags, 308 is on the heavy side.CS makes good ones. Actually, this is sound advice. I knew from past experience from a previous .308 what to expect weight-wise, and I told myself to just suck it up because it's worth having a .308 caliber rifle. I'm not sure what your intended use for this rifle is, but unless you're LE/Military, I doubt weight should really be an issue. Range use, it shouldn't be a factor at all as you can lay it down whenever. Hunting? Now weight becomes a bit more of a factor, but when hunting, you don't lug around 20 round mags anyways. Typically 5 rounders. Also, if you don't feel comfortable carrying it around the woods, consider a different rifle. Perhaps bolt action. SHTF rifle? I would MUCH rather carry a bit extra weight than hope for the best with a smaller caliber. With all that said, a good sling goes a LONG way. By the looks of it, you're going for a battle rifle setup with your .308, so I'd look at options to keep it at the "low ready" position for SHTF, but hunting or range, a good 2 point. I'm making a DMR style out of mine, so 2 point sling will work just fine for me, but I'm strongly considering a picatinny mounted carry handle, but I really wanted a receiver rail scope mount, and the TWS dogleg rail would probably be the only option for a carry handle due to the balance point being right at the front trunnion area. I don't know what else to say other than it's definitely a beefier rifle which requires a stronger man. Do some push-ups. Yeah - A fully loaded S308 (w/ 20 round steel Ccspecs mag) with a small optic is still running just under/over 13 lbs (depending on handuard and accessories) An M-1 Garand is about that much empty, with no optic or folding stock or muzzle device. When shooting a "Man's Rifle..." Do what a man does... Get strong! Macbeau sends.... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Yeah - A fully loaded S308 (w/ 20 round steel Ccspecs mag) with a small optic is still running just under/over 13 lbs (depending on handuard and accessories) 10 lbs and 10 or 12 ounces here (I forget which, but it was one or the other): Get strong AND make the gun lighter/better balanced. Edited July 28, 2014 by Jim Digriz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yeah - A fully loaded S308 (w/ 20 round steel Ccspecs mag) with a small optic is still running just under/over 13 lbs (depending on handuard and accessories) 10 lbs and 10 or 12 ounces here (I forget which, but it was one or the other): Get strong AND make the gun lighter/better balanced. damn that is sexy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I have a 16.5" barrel converted Saiga 308 that I carry on my family's farm and use for hog hunting. I swapped out the stock forearm for the Tapco, I didn't really want to go through the effort and cost of a traditional AK hand guard, and I do like the side rail features. I also went with an Arsenal NATO LoP fixed stock (I have a scope so the folder is out). Works well for me, carried on a 2 point sling. Getting my shoulders used to the weight is the hardest part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Mine looked almost exactly like Jim Digriz' rifle, full set of real Russian plum, except that I added a full length optic (6-24X50) on a full sized side rail scope mount, as well as an STG-58 brake on the 22" barrel. The only weight reduction was the removal of the FSB. The brake was machined, and tapped and threaded for 4 set screws to retain it on the thinner section of barrel under the FSB. Worked perfect, and personally I loved the look... How was it for weight, though?? Damn fuckin heavy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I've decided to order the ace skeleton stock and go either factory handguard or SGM poly handguard. That alone will take off almost 1 lbs. I walk around in the woods at my ranch with this and any weight off will help. Thanks for all the input fellas. Edited September 20, 2014 by longhorn03 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 As the others have said, lose the cheese grater handguard. Weight lost at the stock helps in carrying the rifle, but won't help you as much in shooting it since it is so far back. Maybe switch to a birdcage flash hider, but I doubt if you'll notice that much. You could try Uinta poly mags, but the tradeoff there may be durability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
longhorn03 10 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm currently looking for wither the SGM handguard or the OEM. I can't find mine! I've moved a couple times since the original conversion so it's either in a box somewhere or in a landfill. I'll see how it feels to take some weight off the front before switching out the stock for the lightweight ace stock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm currently looking for wither the SGM handguard or the OEM. I can't find mine! I've moved a couple times since the original conversion so it's either in a box somewhere or in a landfill. I'll see how it feels to take some weight off the front before switching out the stock for the lightweight ace stock If you're attempting to save weight, I'd think you wouldn't want to attach things to your forend other than possibly a sling mount, so no use for rail sections. I'd go with the factory one, but that's me and I personally really like the original Saiga forends. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Original Saiga for grip is hard to beat for ergonomics and weight. With cooling slots milled in it is even better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrwiggles2004 15 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some things that worked for me while bringing the weight down on my .308 and .223 recently: Stock Forearm (7.9 oz after mods)- Probably one of the lightest you are going to find. I vented mine at the top to let out some heat, and to make it look a little better. There is a steel insert at the business end of the handguard, if you have access to a mill some relief cuts there will drop a little weight. Another thing I did was lose the stock sling swivel stud because it's worthless due to not being hollow, and I bolted a sling mount from the rear of an ak stock vertically on the saiga HG in about the same spot as an ak sling mount. Tapco AK Stock (10.48 oz)- The Tapco is lighter than any of the other fixed variants i came across. The stock Tapco buttplate is a chunk, and if you have a factory stamped AK buttplate around they are much lighter. Gas Tube (3.28 oz after mods)- Remove the factory heat shield that comes on the saiga gas tubes. Other than the above mods you can delete the BHO for a small amount of weight savings, and the side scope rail can be removed if you wish as well for a significant weight savings. I also moved my stock sling swivel up near the receiver so I can run a single point sling if I wish without adding a sling plate. All of the grips I weighed were so close that it didn't make sense to swap just use the one you like best. I hope this helps someone out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Heh still say its just easier to hit the weights a bit... Besides the ol lady might like the results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrwiggles2004 15 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Heh still say its just easier to hit the weights a bit... Besides the ol lady might like the results. How about hitting the gym and taking weight off the rifle? IMO full length rails on a handguard to mount a sling swivel and flashlight just isn't worth the weight. Making a rifle as light as possible without compromising functionality is just smart. If you ever plan to carry anything other than your rifle into the woods both options make sense. If you have other gear when you go camping/hunting whatever you will be glad to have that extra pound. My old lady isn't complaining Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Keeping things spartan is good sense and that means the rifle isnt any heavier than it need be. I guess you can call that lightening. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrwiggles2004 15 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Keeping things spartan is good sense and that means the rifle isnt any heavier than it need be. I guess you can call that lightening. Agreed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.