MuddyTRD 0 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Just got my Saiga 12 back from the local gunsmith after he moved the FCG forward to where it belongs. Before I sent it out I ran 50 ish rounds of low brass and high brass ammo with no issues whatsoever through the 3 mags I have. I got it back yesterday, and ran about 40 rounds through it, getting at least 1 failure to feed on each magazine. From what I could tell it looked like the front of the shell didn't come up high enough to feed. Is there something done in the conversion that could have caused this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) Generally the answer would be no. He wouldnt have changed any thing that would change the feed angle unless the mag catch on the trigger guard isnt in the same place. I dont think that would cause an occasional problem unless its loose. on the other hand if the new fcg isnt profiled correctly, it could be slowing down the bolt carrier which could cause a failure to feed. Hand cycle it and see if it hangs up on the hammer. If it does its an easy fix. Check you gas setting as well. He may have adjusted it or it could be a coincedence and you need to pull your plug and clean the gas ports. The wad scrapes off and can plug up the chamber or gum up the piston. since it ran good before you know that its something recent Edited August 31, 2014 by utahhandyman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 The fcg is dropped in and has a seam down the center from the manufacturing process so I'm going to guess it hasn't been modified. When the bolt passes over it the carrier presses down on the hammer against the spring pressure and obviously drags on it. Smoothly but I can see it slowing things down. Would that be enough to short stroke it and not let the shell get high enough to feed properly? If so sanding the fcg should help should I just sand until its just contacting and not really putting pressure on anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 The fcg is dropped in and has a seam down the center from the manufacturing process so I'm going to guess it hasn't been modified. When the bolt passes over it the carrier presses down on the hammer against the spring pressure and obviously drags on it. Smoothly but I can see it slowing things down. Would that be enough to short stroke it and not let the shell get high enough to feed properly? If so sanding the fcg should help should I just sand until its just contacting and not really putting pressure on anything? There are many threads and stickys that cover this problem, it is recommended that you REALLY read them before performing any modifications. You might also check Gunfun (he is a forum member) he has some very specific links in his signature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Thanks, I will be doing lots of reading tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I would take it back and demand that the work be done properly. Throwing a generic fire control group into it without profiling the hammer to the profile of the original is NOT acceptable from someone calling them selves a smith. Read up, print out and take it back and show him! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I certainly will be in contact and have no doubt that the shop will treat me right. But if it was as simple as smoothing out a burr I would take care of it and save myself the drive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I certainly will be in contact and have no doubt that the shop will treat me right. But if it was as simple as smoothing out a burr I would take care of it and save myself the drive. If you touch it with a file or otherwise alter anything from how it was when you bought it.....then you own it, and the shop prolly won't honor any warranty. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Ya They are right. If you ID'd the problem thats good for you, just have the shop fix it. Read up on the differences so you have the knowledge for sure heres some to get yo started http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/33023-fcg-install-problems/?hl=trigger+group http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/24914-sear-catches-hammer/ http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/37172-trigger-group-fcg-polishing-tutorialheres-how-i-did-it/ http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/55466-tutorial-your-saiga-from-start-to-finish/ http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/25102-hammer-problem/?hl=hammer+grind 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I ran a piece of 220 grit over it just to feel for snags while I searched for more info, otherwise I'm not touching it until I talk to the shop tomorrow. Thanks for the links and info I like to know what the job entails so I know if they are bsing me or if I have to take care of this myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 I copied this from a post I was reading some time ago, anyhow; Put both hammers on a screw driver shank. Then put the "ear" flats (where the trigger hooks retain the hammer) even with each other side by side. The aftermarket hammer will probably have a section of its face that stands taller that the factory piece. This is most likely the culprit. Mine was dragging so bad it was not going back into battery before you would pull the trigger again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted September 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Talked to the shop dropping it off Saturday and they will take care of it, thanks for the help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Talked to the shop dropping it off Saturday and they will take care of it, thanks for the help. Let us know how it turns out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted September 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 Still working on this one, my work schedule has been horrible to get the S12 back and forth to the gunsmith. Does anyone sell a re-profiled hammer ready to drop in? Or is there a gunsmith in New England that does great work on these firearms? Just in case it comes to that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 Contact COBRA Customs. He's specializes in this very service. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 Contact COBRA Customs. He's specializes in this very service.And the guy knows these particular guns better than just about everyone here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 28, 2014 Report Share Posted September 28, 2014 OP, what year is the Saiga 12? Look at the first two digits of the serial number if you don't already know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted September 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 Looks like 07 are the first 2 numbers, this is a date stamp? I will look into cobra, it looks like having everything gone over all at once would be worth it anyways above and beyond the hammer profile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Looks like 07 are the first 2 numbers, this is a date stamp? I will look into cobra, it looks like having everything gone over all at once would be worth it anyways above and beyond the hammer profile. Yes, that should be the year of manufacture. Hard to tell what is going on here. Maybe I'm confused, but if it isn't feeding it likely needs feed mods. Where are the rounds catching on the way in, Barrel hood (top), feedramp (bottom), or extractor slot (about 1:00)? Cobra's action refinement will greatly improve the weapon and it could probably use some more port surface area if the ports remain unmodified on a 2007 S12 (should be 3 ports @ .070"ish if it hasn't had any work there). What was the 'smith getting paid to do to it? If he was just doing a quick and dirty conversion then you got what you paid for. If you paid for it to be reliable, well, that is another story. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Long story short, bought the saiga 12 and ran 50+ rounds of low brass and some buckshot. Functioned perfectly. Had a local gunsmith convert it, wouldn't shoot low brass or buck without failure to feed. He took it back, polished the hammer up. Tried the same ammo, no luck. So this afternoon I found the mag and ammo I had initially used, cheap federal stuff. Which was just a hair darker color than what I had been using, which turned out to be the Winchester I had kicking around. Oops. Just ran a mag through of federal and Remington and both work perfectly. Soo problem was mostly my fault I think. Although I am surprised it wouldn't feed the buckshot (Winchester super x) so perhaps its a Winchester thing overall. For the record its a 4 hole and cycles well on setting 1 with FEDERAL low brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some of the Winchester hulls are soft and deform easily which causes them to have feed issues. It can be overcome, but requires some barrel mods at the chamber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
burntpowder 23 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 For the record its a 4 hole and cycles well on setting 1 with FEDERAL low brass. You meant setting 2, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Nope setting 1 runs anything I have thrown at it other than Winchester stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
goldenpony 61 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Cobra is the man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Every semi-auto has it's own personality. They will have some mag or ammo that they just do not like! If the damn thing is just picky and does not like so many things that it becomes a pain in the ass, then it needs work! If it just does not like one kind of cheap ammo or one crappy mag, than it is just easier to feed it what it likes! I think of it this way I HATE butter beans, and no amount of work will make me like them! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
burntpowder 23 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Nope setting 1 runs anything I have thrown at it other than Winchester stuff. On the factory gas plug, setting 1 (restrictive) is for high power loads and setting 2 (wide open) is for light loads. If you are able to run all light loads though your firearm BUT those Winchester's, it may be in your best interest to get an aftermarket plug (DPH 6-Position or a Tac-47 AutoPlug). -bp Edited October 1, 2014 by burntpowder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I've read similar back and forth on that, but I have yet to find evidence of overgassing. I have a buffer from an AK kicking around I'm going to throw in and try some high power stuff and see if its hitting the buffer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I've read similar back and forth on that, but I have yet to find evidence of overgassing. I have a buffer from an AK kicking around I'm going to throw in and try some high power stuff and see if its hitting the buffer. The Kalashnikov system in general is designed to make contact between the carrier and rear block. Totally normal. I do not recommend buffers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
burntpowder 23 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 What does your gun do on setting #2 with those light Winchesters which did not work on #1? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyTRD 0 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I was going to try #2 with the Winchester, and couldn't find my screwdriver. That's the biggest reason for me to get a new gas plug, no tools needed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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