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Someone please educate me on Romanian PSL rifles


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Local LGS just got in two PSLs for their collection of historical rifles. Neither are officially for sale, but I like them and have considered offering a trade to pick one up. The issue I have is:

 

1) I do not know how to tell a good one from bad, apart from inspecting the bore, rifling, etc. Are there any issues to look for in particular?

 

2) I have had difficulty gauging a fair price. Looking at what they are going for on Armslist and GB ranges from 900 to 1800.

 

Looking to possibly trade a high end AR build straight up, but I would place that build at 1200-1300 dollars in a gun shop.

 

Any guidance from those who own one would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Edited by Spacehog
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Don't do it!

They're Romanian AKs, and they'll be back unless an even crazier ban in enacted. Trading a high-end AR for a ~$600 rifle sounds like a raw deal for you.

Look for the same crap you look for in other Romanian rifles - canted gas blocks, canted sight blocks, part fitment. When I buy a Mosin I always bring along a dummy round as a half-assed way to look for excessively bad headspacing - might not be the worst idea on a PSL, though I've never run into one that had a headspacing problem. I've run into a couple of Mosins that would not close the action on a dummy round. Look for all the normal things you look for in any rifle - chamber, bore and crown condition, evidence of corrosion or abuse, presence of all parts, operation of the action and FCG.

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Thanks for the straightforward, no nonsense advice Shandlanos. It is hard to guage what will be available and what won't be in the future with the current political an social environment. You are correct though, time has proven, especially in the AK market, that many AKs that we thought we would never see again, have for whatever reason, started being imported again. (The Dracos and Mini Dracos are a perfect example).

 

I will take some time to rethink the possible trade. Heck who knows maybe a little patience will pay off.

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Hog,

 

 I've heard that on the PSL's, it's not good to shoot the heavy ammo out of them, better off with the light ball ammo, some people claim that the receiver cracks after a while. I don't know, because mine ain't cracked yet, I have shot a little bit of heavy ball out of it, but not much, mainly shoot the 147gr stuff.

 I got one if you want to shoot it, recoil ain't nothing, the scope may take you a little bit to figure out, but all in all, I like mine, and I only paid $599.00 it. It runs like a top.

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I think my solution here is to keep my 23" slant back VEPR I just picked up in .308, and adding SVD furniture from IWD or Rhineland. Not x54 but I can live with 308 and it is a common caliber in my collect that I already reload for.

Hog,

 

 I've heard that on the PSL's, it's not good to shoot the heavy ammo out of them, better off with the light ball ammo, some people claim that the receiver cracks after a while. I don't know, because mine ain't cracked yet, I have shot a little bit of heavy ball out of it, but not much, mainly shoot the 147gr stuff.

 I got one if you want to shoot it, recoil ain't nothing, the scope may take you a little bit to figure out, but all in all, I like mine, and I only paid $599.00 it. It runs like a top.

I got $600.99, in cash for you to buy it. Where do you want to meet? :)

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More advantages for the Vepr - thicker receiver, fewer problems cycling heavy loads. I know PSLs have issues with rapid overheating - wonder if the Vepr rifles have the same problem.

Either rifle, set up to accept Lahti 20-round mags, would be splendiferous.

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More advantages for the Vepr - thicker receiver, fewer problems cycling heavy loads. I know PSLs have issues with rapid overheating - wonder if the Vepr rifles have the same problem.

 

Either rifle, set up to accept Lahti 20-round mags, would be splendiferous.

Receiver is same 1.6mm ,barrel is thicker , but most important is that gas pressure in Veper is lower than in PSL so Vepr is GTG with HB ammo

Have them both, love them both, Vepr is better rifle and made in Russia smile.png

IMG_0863_zpsc818264a.jpg

DSC05722.jpg

Edited by atakacorp
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I do envy you right now. I actually have an order in with Rhineland for a similar set in Tiger Maple. I actually like the cut of the front HG and the wood cheek riser better on the IWD set. I just wanted something different than laminated birch or the other woods they offered, but after seeing your setup I am drooling! :) I am still not sure about Rhineland. I have seen several complaints. They stated that the set would ship mid Sept, and I knew that going into the order, but they sure didn't waste anytime charging my check card. I may cancel it and place an order with IWD. I appreciate you posting the pics.

Edited by Spacehog
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Hey Hog, put a 1 in front of the 1st 6 and we've got a deal.... :) But you're still welcome to shoot it.

LOL. I sold you a nice scope for cheap, why you want to be like that?

 

Actually, that is very close to the going rate I am seeing for PSLs right now, at least with extra mags and ammo.

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I do envy you right now. I actually have an order in with Rhineland for a similar set in Tiger Maple. I actually like the cut of the front HG and the wood cheek riser better on the IWD set. I just wanted something different than laminated birch or the other woods they offered, but after seeing your setup I am drooling! smile.png I am still not sure about Rhineland. I have seen several complaints. They stated that the set would ship mid Sept, and I knew that going into the order, but they sure didn't waste anytime charging my check card. I may cancel it and place an order with IWD. I appreciate you posting the pics.

IWD has absolutely best copy of original SVD butt stock in US, I wont say anything about Rhineland, just its different smile.png

 

P1010498_zpsd24e5fda.jpgP1010511_zps816c29be.jpg[/url]

P1010484_zps471be603.jpg

[url=http://s620.photobucket.com/user/atakacorp/media/Vepr%20X54/IMG_0554_zps2c818243.jpg.html]IMG_0554_zps2c818243.jpg

Edited by atakacorp
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The PSL is a real war machine. The VEPR can't claim that history. Did some break, maybe? Has anyone seen a broken one? But if they did, how many millions of rounds have these guns shot successfully? Are the built lighter? Yes. That is because they were designed to be mobile. Not hang on wall next to an animal mount. "Metal doublstack mags" nuff said. No plastic crap. If you are worried about the over gassed, nature that ultimately leads to reliability even under battle conditions, all you have to do is drill and tap the gas block use set screws as jets and tune it down to shoot your ammo and it will eat anything, and shoot softer. The op question was not how does a vepr compare to a PSL. Soo if you want to know. There are basically two options; one is Romanian built receiver Romanian barrel(most importantly chrome lined) it may be imported by CIA but will say "cugir" the second option is CAI built US reciever and US barrel(not chrome) No need to explain why a "cai built" and non "chrome lined" barrel may not be the best choice on a surplus ammo gun. You can tell the two apart by the chime lined barrel and chamber. Yes it's that visible. The bayo lug will be neutered on the military barrel. Blah blah. It's history vs quality. If you want accuracy ALL these ak variant suck.

P.S. I sold my PSL to buy a Vepr. I bump fired my pls till the shellac on the hand guard started smoking. It does loosen up on the groups but the "stringering" and it shot like an ak after tuning the gas port.

All I'm saying they were both designed and built to do exactly what they do. And they both do it we'll. as long as you don't think the PSL is a sniper you'll be ok.

At the right price they are both awesome guns!

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Thanks for the education, and yes that is some of the information that I wanted to know..how to tell PSLs apart. I am not familiar with them like I am with other AK variants, apart from be able to recognize it as a PSL. Appreciate the info brother. I do not expect benchrest accuracy out of any AK, I have AR builds and bolt guns for that. I do appreciate all the advice advising me to reconsider the trade above though. It has tempered the "I want one and I want it now" mentality I had when originally posting. I may not have asked for other options, but I got them and that is not a bad thing to have. Appreciate everyone's input.

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Hey Hog, put a 1 in front of the 1st 6 and we've got a deal.... smile.png But you're still welcome to shoot it.

LOL. I sold you a nice scope for cheap, why you want to be like that?

 

Actually, that is very close to the going rate I am seeing for PSLs right now, at least with extra mags and ammo.

 

I wouldn't do that to ya. :)  But mine did come with the scope, 2 mags and scope cover. I'll look at it tomorrow afternoon and see what barrel is in it. I got $100 that says it's not chromed, but I could be wrong, never have been, but there's a first time for everything. :) 

 

Was the LGS you mentioned, the one down off of hwy31, T&S, I think, I stopped in there and almost had a damn orgasm. The wife mentioned going down there and I told her NO, we'd get in deep shit trouble with the CC melting down, AmEx has no limit, but the bill still comes due in 30. :)

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Hey Hog, put a 1 in front of the 1st 6 and we've got a deal.... :) But you're still welcome to shoot it.

 

LOL. I sold you a nice scope for cheap, why you want to be like that?

Actually, that is very close to the going rate I am seeing for PSLs right now, at least with extra mags and ammo.

I wouldn't do that to ya. :)  But mine did come with the scope, 2 mags and scope cover. I'll look at it tomorrow afternoon and see what barrel is in it. I got $100 that says it's not chromed, but I could be wrong, never have been, but there's a first time for everything. :) 

 

Was the LGS you mentioned, the one down off of hwy31, T&S, I think, I stopped in there and almost had a damn orgasm. The wife mentioned going down there and I told her NO, we'd get in deep shit trouble with the CC melting down, AmEx has no limit, but the bill still comes due in 30. :)

You nailed it. Tim just got in the two PSLs at T&S to go along with the RPDs and RPKs. Actually, I think it was Charles. Tim is more of the AR guy and Charles loves AK's. You do need to get back up there. They have their coating line up and running and a lot of new stuff. The have a new AR drop in trigger with dual mounted tp springs that are the slickest AR trigger I have ever pulled. Give me a call when you go back up and I will join you. I am 15 minutes away. I'll PM you the number, I know it's been a while.

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Very good read

http://www.dragunov.net/psl_tiger.html

 

PSL and Vepr x54R  are AKs on steroids , SVD/Tigr (dragunov) is different platform rifle

 

Both of those are excellent reads. I was amazed to see just how different the SVD is from a typical AK rifle. From it's construction it is really a completely different rifle, rather than a variant of the typical AK action. Very cool.

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  • 4 weeks later...

54r psl's are out of production iirc. The shipment of mags and parts that came in spring 2013 were rumored to be the last of it. The new psl is in 308. I'd say what would it hurt for you to pick one up. I want a vepr in 54 as well as I'm just too poor to play the svd game.

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Well the Tiger Maple Rhineland Arms furniture came in before I could cancel the order. I decided not to return it, because they met their commitment, and I don't want to do business like that. It is very nice, and the grain is going to be beautiful when I finish it out with Aqua Fortis and Tru-oil. With that said, the IWD furniture posted by atakacorp is much nicer in its cut and reproduction of real SVD furniture.

 

The Rhineland Arms buttstock does not have the slant back cut out for the VEPR. Instead the receiver fits over the stock. You can not tell this from the pics on their website because they only show the furniture installed, not as a stand-alone set. They should have made the stock 3.2 mm thicker and milled in the slant back cut so the stock and receiver were flush. This adds to the cost and potential issues with fitting. My VEPR .308 is odd in that I cannot switch out other VEPR furniture without considerable fitting. For the Rhineland Arms furniture being less than 1/2 the cost, with a wood species that sets it apart, overallI am happy with the purchase.

 

I am going to lose the rubber cheek riser that comes with the RA set, in favor of a custom made Tiger Maple riser. This will add the beef that the RA buttstock lacks from its IWD counterpart. I have two Tiger Maple blanks ordered to build a more appropriate set. Those blanks should be in tomorrow, with the Aqua Fortis following on Tuesday. I will post up pics of the project on this thread from beginning to end. I doubt that it will be as nice as atakacorp's (that is truly a beautiful rifle), but it will be custom, and it will have a part of me in it. It will be Spacehog's take on SVD furniture as opposed to an exact reproduction. Thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread, and especially for the pics from atakacorp of a beautiful rifle that is going to be my inspiration for this project.

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Here is the start of the project:

 

VEPR 23" slant back .308

Rhineland Arms SVD furniture set in Tiger Maple (starting to get heavily modified):

 

post-37530-0-72722600-1412040127_thumb.jpg

 

post-37530-0-82359200-1412040166_thumb.jpg

 

 

Highly figured Tiger maple blank will replace the rubber cheek riser:

 

post-37530-0-85099800-1412040273_thumb.jpg

 

 

Modified an old picatinny rail bipod to directly mount to the rear of the HG:

 

post-37530-0-88089700-1412040419_thumb.jpg

 

 

This scrap piece of Tiger Maple came with the set. It has been stained to show the figure. The grain should be even more dramatic with the Aquafortis:

 

post-37530-0-60102400-1412040728_thumb.jpg

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There was a US company making adjustable gas blocks for the PSL which would allow it to run commercial/heavy ball 54r. No idea if still in production.

 

I wonder where the .308 PSL imports are? I have never actually seen one, but I don't doubt that they exist, especially since Cugir is moving most of their designs to NATO calibers in hopes of securing export contracts.

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