New K-VAR ARSENAL complete with canted rear sight.

[mancat 2,368]

Did Arsenal specifically say that you could not shoot it to verify zero?  I mean it's hard to tell if it's actually bent by just looking at the photo you provided, but I will trust that you can see that it's bent beyond the simple fact that the sight adjustment is.

 

I would also be pissed that it came out of the box like that, but I've heard so much bad shit about Arsenal's RMA process that if it were me, I would fix it myself rather than ship it back.

 

There is some available "tweaking" room at the hinge ears of the dust cover, assuming that the hinge block is not canted as well.

 

 

 

Without sights that work, it might as well be a stamped receiver PAP and a 75rd drum.

 

My PAP has shot nearly 1MOA at 50yd and still cost half of the SAM7K including all the shit I put on it. What's there to complain about other than not having "Arsenal" printed on it?

[storm6490 2,768]

I guess we have a different level of understanding skull fucked. To me it means strappning a nade to the front sights then running it over with a tank wich is dragging a large boulder behind it. Yep deffinetly fucked, nothing can be done. What you have are canted sights that need to be re adjusted. DO they come in as a pistol or are they just half assembled?

 

I dont see a difference between the PAP and this Arsenal. Had both styles of AK neither one was better then the other. The whole milled = greater accuracy is a myth. Some individual guns are more accurate then others, true, but thats as far as it goes

You can't re adjust it. You tear it off, put on a new cover, drill the cover and rivet a sight on. They come as a whole. The difference is the tolerances, the parts, the twist rate and the chrome barrel. Not much different in looks, just ingredients. Milled is kinda nice but no better than a well done stamped receiver. Nice thing about milled rifles is that they seem to be worth more even after years of use. They will hold up better I guess.

 

If it were a 400 dollar PAP, I'd hit it with a hammer and call it good. It's not. You don't pay a premium for sights that are not level and non adjustable.

[storm6490 2,768]

Did Arsenal specifically say that you could not shoot it to verify zero?  I mean it's hard to tell if it's actually bent by just looking at the photo you provided, but I will trust that you can see that it's bent beyond the simple fact that the sight adjustment is.

 

I would also be pissed that it came out of the box like that, but I've heard so much bad shit about Arsenal's RMA process that if it were me, I would fix it myself rather than ship it back.

 

There is some available "tweaking" room at the hinge ears of the dust cover, assuming that the hinge block is not canted as well.

 

 

 

Without sights that work, it might as well be a stamped receiver PAP and a 75rd drum.

 

My PAP has shot nearly 1MOA at 50yd and still cost half of the SAM7K including all the shit I put on it. What's there to complain about other than not having "Arsenal" printed on it?

The PAP is fucking awesome. I will probably get one soon. They are fun and surprisingly accurate. Nothing wrong with them at all. They are just a less expensive pistol with a lesser quality barrel. The barrel thing is important to me as I like to run cheap surplus junk. chrome line and hammer forged tends to last a while longer.

 

They never said not to shoot it. I pulled it out of the box and said FUCK THIS. The sight assembly is not bent. The assembly was riveted on to the cover wrong. They used, and trusted the dimple created while pressing the cover as a guide to drill and mount the sight. It's cocked to the left side so bad that whoever last fucked with the rear sight aperture decided that cranking it all the way to the right would make things right.

 

The photo does not show it very well. Kinda like trying to show someone on a photo how steep the mountain you were hiking was. It flattens the perspective.

 

I sent it back to them today for 32 dollars UPS ground. I had to drive 30 miles round trip with kids in tow. Sure hope it works out.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Stryker0946

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

The PAP 92 and 85 have CHF barrels. You'd be real hard pressed to wear one of those out. The M85 is also chrome lined and has a 1.5mm RPK receiver. It weighs as much as my SAM7K and is built like a tank. All three are very accurate but the SAM7K prints smaller groups @100M ~ 2.5 MOA

Edited September 13, 2014 by JAG

[storm6490 2,768]

The PAP 92 and 85 have CHF barrels. You'd be real hard pressed to wear one of those out. The M85 is also chrome lined and has a 1.5mm RPK receiver. It weighs as much as my SAM7K and is built like a tank. All three are very accurate but the SAM7K prints smaller groups @100M ~ 2.5 MOA

Thanks for the info. The M85 is a very interesting rifle. The first rifle I shot to death was an M24, the second was a sg69. It can happen. Hope to find an m85 locally.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

The M85 is really nice. If you can get one I would steer clear of the ones that accept AR mags. The mag well adapter is permanent, plastic and the feed ramps have been modified to where it can't be reverted to use the AK mags. JG sales had these on sale and it came with, get this 35 mags. They also had the mags for sale for $7. The standard mags are also built like a tank and you can drive your truck over it without a problem. They used to be like $80 but in stocked up when they were $7.

[Big John! 2,062]

 

Did Arsenal specifically say that you could not shoot it to verify zero?  I mean it's hard to tell if it's actually bent by just looking at the photo you provided, but I will trust that you can see that it's bent beyond the simple fact that the sight adjustment is.

 

I would also be pissed that it came out of the box like that, but I've heard so much bad shit about Arsenal's RMA process that if it were me, I would fix it myself rather than ship it back.

 

There is some available "tweaking" room at the hinge ears of the dust cover, assuming that the hinge block is not canted as well.

 

 

 

Without sights that work, it might as well be a stamped receiver PAP and a 75rd drum.

 

My PAP has shot nearly 1MOA at 50yd and still cost half of the SAM7K including all the shit I put on it. What's there to complain about other than not having "Arsenal" printed on it?

The PAP is fucking awesome. I will probably get one soon. They are fun and surprisingly accurate. Nothing wrong with them at all. They are just a less expensive pistol with a lesser quality barrel. The barrel thing is important to me as I like to run cheap surplus junk. chrome line and hammer forged tends to last a while longer.

 

They never said not to shoot it. I pulled it out of the box and said FUCK THIS. The sight assembly is not bent. The assembly was riveted on to the cover wrong. They used, and trusted the dimple created while pressing the cover as a guide to drill and mount the sight. It's cocked to the left side so bad that whoever last fucked with the rear sight aperture decided that cranking it all the way to the right would make things right.

 

The photo does not show it very well. Kinda like trying to show someone on a photo how steep the mountain you were hiking was. It flattens the perspective.

 

I sent it back to them today for 32 dollars UPS ground. I had to drive 30 miles round trip with kids in tow. Sure hope it works out.

 

I sure hope they get it right for you.  I don't like letting my guns outta my sight, so sending one even to the manufacturer would piss me off.

[mancat 2,368]

I used to be in the same boat w.r.t. not wanting a non-chromed barrel, but in all likelihood 7.62x39 is not going to wear out a CHF non-chromed barrel any time soon. Too low pressure & velocity to eat the barrel up on its own, as long as you're not shooting corrosive.

 

OTOH I would be very gentle with a non-chromed 5.56 or 5.45 barrel. I do have a 4140 non-chrome 5.56 barrel for a kit that I've been meaning to build for several years, and I'll never do mag dumps through it or probably even shoot bimetal Russian .223.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

The Serbians have never chromed any of their barrels and the some of the best 7.62x39 ammo, Yugo M67 is corrosive. They have not been worried about it. The M85 barrels were chromed to satisfy NATO specs. With a non chromed barrel in 5.56 as long as you are not doing constant mag dumps it be all right. Luckygunner tested 3, AR15 identical, chrome lined guns with Federal, Wolf and Tula ammo. 10K rounds, doing non stop mag dumps and the guns cleaned at various intervals.

The barrels using the bimetal projectile were shot out at 6K and the Federal tested gun survived to 10K but exhibited excessive gas cutting to the gas port. It was also the dirtiest sample.

Hardly anyone will expend 10K through their gun and definitely not at that rate of fire. The cost of replacement barrels comparing brass to steel ammo was more cost effective to use the steel case.

So in essence, it cheaper to shoot steel case and replace the barrel than it is to do so with brass cased ammo and concerning corrosive ammo, H2O is your friend as this issue is way overblown and lastly, if need be your barrel can always be nitrided which surpasses chrome as a protectant.

[mancat 2,368]

This is getting a little OT but there is some non-corrosive M67 out there - seems it was generally either commercial export ammo (some imported by Hansen in the 80s from Prvi), or late-production Serbian army (SFR Yugo).

 

It was boxer primed. The boxer primed M67 has a flat primer, whereas the berdan primed M67 has a convex primer.

I had some once, headstamped 1994, and it was in Cyrillic marked boxes so it didn't appear to be export.

Edited September 13, 2014 by mancat

[uzitiger 193]

Are these sights available for purchase? I would like one even though I won't be able to use the side rail mounted optics with it. I never liked the AK open sights and prefer aperture sights especially now that I'm on my 50s.

[mancat 2,368]

you need to look at Tech-Sights' AK product

 

http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm

[storm6490 2,768]

The Serbians have never chromed any of their barrels and the some of the best 7.62x39 ammo, Yugo M67 is corrosive. They have not been worried about it. The M85 barrels were chromed to satisfy NATO specs. With a non chromed barrel in 5.56 as long as you are not doing constant mag dumps it be all right. Luckygunner tested 3, AR15 identical, chrome lined guns with Federal, Wolf and Tula ammo. 10K rounds, doing non stop mag dumps and the guns cleaned at various intervals.

The barrels using the bimetal projectile were shot out at 6K and the Federal tested gun survived to 10K but exhibited excessive gas cutting to the gas port. It was also the dirtiest sample.

Hardly anyone will expend 10K through their gun and definitely not at that rate of fire. The cost of replacement barrels comparing brass to steel ammo was more cost effective to use the steel case.

So in essence, it cheaper to shoot steel case and replace the barrel than it is to do so with brass cased ammo and concerning corrosive ammo, H2O is your friend as this issue is way overblown and lastly, if need be your barrel can always be nitrided which surpasses chrome as a protectant.

You have a lot of good information there but you do assume a lot of stuff brother. 10K in a sporting rifle is pretty common, at least round here. I consider myself out of practice and still get at least 500 rounds a month in with various firearms. In my hay day, 10K would happen in a few months. The chrome barrel and ammo tests are great and all, they are not really that helpful. The coating makes clean up easier and the wear on a rifle comes from shooting, transport and cleaning. All things that take time and real world use to figure out what lasts. Non chrome lined barrels simply rust faster, wear out quicker and are more exposed to the elements.

 

Dumping 10K in one session is cool but wouldn't even happen in a real firefight. I wish it would, but unfortunately not.

 

How does Nitride finishing surpass chrome in a barrel? That's news to me. Maybe externally but, internally? If so, I'm down to chemically treat a few pistols that need some extra life.

[mancat 2,368]

Nitride is much harder than chrome, and the treatment is much more uniform and strongly adherent to the steel.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

 

The Serbians have never chromed any of their barrels and the some of the best 7.62x39 ammo, Yugo M67 is corrosive. They have not been worried about it. The M85 barrels were chromed to satisfy NATO specs. With a non chromed barrel in 5.56 as long as you are not doing constant mag dumps it be all right. Luckygunner tested 3, AR15 identical, chrome lined guns with Federal, Wolf and Tula ammo. 10K rounds, doing non stop mag dumps and the guns cleaned at various intervals.

The barrels using the bimetal projectile were shot out at 6K and the Federal tested gun survived to 10K but exhibited excessive gas cutting to the gas port. It was also the dirtiest sample.

Hardly anyone will expend 10K through their gun and definitely not at that rate of fire. The cost of replacement barrels comparing brass to steel ammo was more cost effective to use the steel case.

So in essence, it cheaper to shoot steel case and replace the barrel than it is to do so with brass cased ammo and concerning corrosive ammo, H2O is your friend as this issue is way overblown and lastly, if need be your barrel can always be nitrided which surpasses chrome as a protectant.

You have a lot of good information there but you do assume a lot of stuff brother. 10K in a sporting rifle is pretty common, at least round here. I consider myself out of practice and still get at least 500 rounds a month in with various firearms. In my hay day, 10K would happen in a few months. The chrome barrel and ammo tests are great and all, they are not really that helpful. The coating makes clean up easier and the wear on a rifle comes from shooting, transport and cleaning. All things that take time and real world use to figure out what lasts. Non chrome lined barrels simply rust faster, wear out quicker and are more exposed to the elements.

 

Dumping 10K in one session is cool but wouldn't even happen in a real firefight. I wish it would, but unfortunately not.

 

How does Nitride finishing surpass chrome in a barrel? That's news to me. Maybe externally but, internally? If so, I'm down to chemically treat a few pistols that need some extra life.

 

No assumptions here. I stated hardly anyone shoots 10K through their gun. For the majority of shooters this is true. These stats exclude shooters as yourself. Also keep in mind these tests done were extreme failure tests. These folks dumped 330+ magazines thru each gun in a day or so. I don't think your doing that otherwise although you shoot a lot more than the average joe your barrels are probably GTG for many years. I applaud your shooting regularity, this should be the norm.

Salt bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing is a hardening of the steel process not a coating which chroming is. The substrate steel itself is hardened and not simply a second layer of hard material applied. Remember Melonite? Not the element, the process (two different animals), same thing. M60 barrels frequently had this done and could sustain extended periods of fire and round counts. It is also extremely corrosion resistant.

You can get this done to your barrels for relatively cheap, better and more economical than chrome plus it is the entire barrel not just the inside.

[storm6490 2,768]

All the M60's we had were Stellite, some kind of cobalt alloy. Seemed to work pretty good. Never heard or seen one with Nitride finishing. Then again, I was pretty much done when they forced that SAW piece of shit on us.

 

Nitride, from what I have just read, is a very interesting process. If you were to select the right steel and apply it properly in a controlled environment, it could make a barrel last thousands of rounds more than the industry standard of chrome.

 

Hell, I might even send out a barrel or two after reading this. Just need to find someone who understands metals and the process really well. Seems like something you could dick up really easy.

 

Thanks for the info. Learn something new every day! HooAH!

 

 

.... sun bitch! my grand power already has it! lol..... i guess the glocks did it to the slide as well.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Stryker0946

[storm6490 2,768]

September 17th, Package delivered to the guys and gals in Vegas.

[chamber12 5]

I sent it back to them today for 32 dollars UPS ground. I had to drive 30 miles round trip with kids in tow. Sure hope it works out.

 

 

 

They're making YOU  pay shipping?

[horatio 515]

Hey Stryker.

 

If your looking to do some nitriding, I think that CSS does that to their s12 mags. I'm not 100% sure, I kinda remember it from one of their old posts in making the s12 mags. Ill try to find it this weekend

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

I sent it back to them today for 32 dollars UPS ground. I had to drive 30 miles round trip with kids in tow. Sure hope it works out.

 

 

 

They're making YOU  pay shipping?

Its part of the agreement that you check prior to completing the order.

[storm6490 2,768]

 

I sent it back to them today for 32 dollars UPS ground. I had to drive 30 miles round trip with kids in tow. Sure hope it works out.

 

 

 

They're making YOU  pay shipping?

 

Yes, perhaps they will sweeten the deal with a t-shirt or magazine. This is the only business I have ever dealt with when an item is defective and I had to pay return shipping instead of being issued an RA number and return label.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Yeah thats crap tastic. Even century sends a pre paid shipping label. They probably won't fix it, but at least the 4-6 week wait is free.

[storm6490 2,768]

Just got an email. It appears the rifle is being sent to my FFL dealer which would mean that it is a new one. I will get a few shots of it when she gets here. If it's all 8 up again, she is going on gunbroker and on my shit list. From what I hear, they usually make things right so I will be skeptically optimistic if that's a thing. They better throw in a fucking t-shirt for the shipping and the wait!

[yakdung 2,926]

Paying for return shipping for new out of the box with factory defects is total unacceptable IMHO. Kel-Tec pulled that stunt on me with my Sub2000.

[mancat 2,368]

Dear customer, in spirit of American individualism and rugged nature, we have included this inspiring shirt. Thank you for a business

 

[XdamagedX 248]

...made in china 

[storm6490 2,768]

Dear customer, in spirit of American individualism and rugged nature, we have included this inspiring shirt. Thank you for a business

 

Tell ya what right there, im gonna wear my good tee shirt this friday night. All the girls will be lookin at it. Them wolves right there look like an intimidatear. even got the moon n mountains. tell ya what.

[storm6490 2,768]

Looked at the new pistol today. At least the aperture is in the middle. The sight seems slightly canted but oh well. I got delayed after not being delayed for two pistols last month. Oh well, things happen for a reason. Wasted trip into town.

 

Perhaps all the Arsenal sights just suck. The Russians get it right and have better fit and finish.

 

Fuck Arsenal and Fuck K-Var.

 

Live and learn.