Extremely stubborn gas block pin

[OmegaX 5]

I have beaten the living daylights out of the bottom gas block pin, and it won't budge, even after using copious amounts of Liquid Wrench for days. I even heated it up and tried (just beyond being too hot to touch). Does anybody have any additional ideas? 

 

There are only 2 gunsmiths in town, and one of them already said he didn't want to work on it. I haven't run it by the other dude, yet, but I'm not hopeful.  If I can't get it, and nobody in town wants to do it, where should I send it? 

 

This thing is unbelievable, but I don't want to give up just yet.

[Long Shot 1,287]

High quality punch, 22oz. Ball peen hammer, solid back-up, left to right removal.

 

It'll come.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

High quality punch, 22oz. Ball peen hammer, solid back-up, left to right removal.

 

It'll come.

 

Having an absolutely solid backup is key. Also instead of a regular punch with parallel sides, try using a tapered one like a Stanley nail set. They have more balls. I've always taken them out right to left myself actually. The pins are not tapered so they will go in or out from either direction.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

+1 on the back up!

Cutting a 2x4 and drilling a hole for the pin to be driven into will help along with grinding a "v" grove in it, for the barrel and gas block to rest well in, helps a lot.

Now that you've beaten it, it might be hard to tell, but in my dealings I've found that the pins are driven in from either side. I suppose it just depends on who was assembling them that shift. Best thing is to look for the slightly mushroomed head from the initial installation of the pin. Sometimes it's not mushroomed at all, but simply flush on the side it was driven from, and slightly recessed on the opposite. (It's very slight) .

[james lambert 3,059]

A block of wood is not my idea of solid back up.

A heavy vise and fixture is

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

A block of wood is not my idea of solid back up.

A heavy vise and fixture is

Works fine for me, but that's a good idea too.

For extreme cases like barrel pins, I've drilled an old piece of pump shaft to that I can put the punches in to hold them in the shop press.

[james lambert 3,059]

Im not fond of pressing pins in saigas, I did enough it was worth the time to make quick fixtures to hold them.

 

Some of them were a real pain even with equipment

others practically fell apart. 

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Im not fond of pressing pins in saigas, I did enough it was worth the time to make quick fixtures to hold them.

 

Some of them were a real pain even with equipment

others practically fell apart. 

Using the press is definitely a "safety glasses required" operation!

[james lambert 3,059]

 

Im not fond of pressing pins in saigas, I did enough it was worth the time to make quick fixtures to hold them.

 

Some of them were a real pain even with equipment

others practically fell apart. 

Using the press is definitely a "safety glasses required" operation!

 

Very true...punches shatter under hammers too, 

 

lots of eye injuries even with glasses

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

A block of wood is not my idea of solid back up.

A heavy vise and fixture is

 

 

Exactly Jim, even a regular 2x4 stud (made of pine, spruce, or fir... a softwood) is not really hard enough to keep the gun from vibrating or shifting if not securely clamped in place to it. A slightly softer metal like brass or aluminum is ideal as a backing, but without that a hardwood can be used and works well If the pins are not in there super tight (some move very easily). I perfer to use a hardwood block in that case.

 

  I use a piece oak flooring turned upside down against the solid concrete floor of my shop. It's easy to support the rest of the gun laying flat on the floor with a small foam pad or piece of carpet leveling it. The hardwood flooring is flat on top for a solid base against the floor and has a slightly hollowed back to hold the gas block steady. What I did was cut and glued a second block to fit into the lower curve of the gas block and flat against the lower flat part where the pin is installed. Then drilled a recess for the pins to be driven into.

 With the gun very solidly supported where it does not rock or teeter (as it would be if in a vice), I am free to use both hands to drive the pins out. A good penetrating oil, (Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, etc..) and a 2 lb sledge or masonry hammer makes easy work of breaking them loose. To get the pins broken loose I use a sturdy steel Stanley tapered nail set. I use a larger sized set with a thick tapered shaft and just a small enough tip that it can start the pin moving and go in about 1/4", then I switch to a regular punch that just fits through the pin hole, and a ball peen hammer to drive it the rest of the way out. Works like a charm ever time.

 

 When putting the pins back in, first be sure you have the gas block realigned properly with the block set back on the indexing marks you were already wise enough to put there before removing anything.   I scribe the bottom of the barrel with a small line at the rear base of the block with a sharp blade like a box cutter. Then to mark how it is clocked on the barrel I make two small index marks at the rear base with a center punch, one in the barrel right next to the block, the other right next to it on the back of the block's base. Makes realignment very easy.

 Last when you go to drive the pins back in look for the slightly mushroomed end referred to in the above post, and remove the outer edge to make it flush again so it doesn't get worse driving it back in. On the other end that should be smooth and flush already, I like to put a very small chamfer or bevel on the leading edge so it easily centers itself and starts in the hole with a couple of light taps of the ball peen hammer.  I chuck the pin in a cordless drill and turn the end against a file at a 45 degree angle to make the beveled edge. With the gun again solidly supported and the pins lubed, just lightly tap them back in place and use the nail set to get that last 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch.

[G O B 3,516]

SAVE those old bent or broken punches! Start the pin moving with a punch cut down to about 1/8" and use at LEAST a32oz hammer. Oak 4X4 or lead ingot for backing.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

SAVE those old bent or broken punches! Start the pin moving with a punch cut down to about 1/8" and use at LEAST a32oz hammer. Oak 4X4 or lead ingot for backing.

 

Truth! In fact I forgot to mention the nail set I use is one the tip shattered on so I ground it down for a much more stout punch.

[sccritterkiller 473]

I had one of my GB pins that was very stubborn. Went through all the suggestions above...used a left over piece of teak wood flooring as a backer all on a concrete floor and the Stanley punch. I could not get to move myself....It took an extra set of hands to get mine out. A buddy of mine holding it down and me swinging away...cobra's advice above is how I got mine out...also beveling the edges of the pin before reinstalling works like a charm the next time you have to take it out. Thanks again Cobra!

Edited September 16, 2014 by sccritterkiller

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yes an extra set of hands is great when you need it. In a pinch sitting or kneeling on top of it to hold it from moving has worked but much better to have your buddy stand on it. Any movement at all is too much if it's really stuck.

[OmegaX 5]

You guys are a lifesaver!  I got a block of oak, a nail-set, and the BIG hammer. I laid it on the concrete, and beat that sucker into submission.  The block was easy to get off.  Now for lots of tedious filing!

 

Thank you all!

[sccritterkiller 473]

You guys are a lifesaver!  I got a block of oak, a nail-set, and the BIG hammer. I laid it on the concrete, and beat that sucker into submission.  The block was easy to get off.  Now for lots of tedious filing!

 

Thank you all!

You don't need to go with D shape hole like in the pinned thread...learned that on the hard way. Another thing I was warned against doing, by cobra, but I got carried away....took me little over six months to find another gas block. It's still works fine and I run it but I have a back up puck and GB in case my D mod GB or current puck shits the bed. Some lessons I just have to learn the hard way. I been shooting ARs/bolt actions since I could shoulder them but the S12 was my first AK platform so thru mistakes I learned a lot about the platform in general. To me the tinkering/modding/learning is what I enjoy, screwing shit up along the way is part of my process...LOL Enjoy and have fun!

[OmegaX 5]

Well, as I post this I'm about done with the "D".  Now I'm concerned. What happens with the blocks?  There seems to be a ton of metal, to the point where I can't imagine the bit I took out making much difference.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Wow so that ridiculous thread claims another one.... wow. When will the mods here wake up and take that crap off the sticky list?

 

It may end up "fine". Or it may make for new problems. No way to tell except reassemble and try it. It will undoubtedly get more gas and likely will cycle better. That is still no reason to leave a thread up that causes people to keep butchering irreplaceable parts.

[sccritterkiller 473]

That sucks! That pinned thread needs to go. I haven't had any problems yet but my concern is that it will eventually chew up the puck or damage the other internals from getting too much gas. I will say mine runs great and so far so good but I only run bird shot in that one. That reminds me I need to dig the un alter GB out of the drawer and install it.

Edited September 17, 2014 by sccritterkiller

[Wagnikov 186]

SAVE those old bent or broken punches! Start the pin moving with a punch cut down to about 1/8" and use at LEAST a32oz hammer. Oak 4X4 or lead ingot for backing.

+1 this is exactly what I use successfully!

[OmegaX 5]

We're waaaay off the original topic, now, but I'm really curious.

 

I do have an auto-plug.  I would hope that would prevent over-gassing issues.  Though, I also have the 6-position plug.  If I prevent over-gassing it, am I in the clear? I guess I don't know how it would chew the puck up... is it excess hot gas, or is it friction from rougher edges around the hole?

 

I've got the CSS performance puck in there, but I also have the original (somewhere).  I'd rather it not chew up pucks, but I can live with it, as long as it's not instantaneous, and replacements are available.  

 

For the record, if that thread isn't the "straight dope", as my dad would say, I'm all for taking it down.  From a noob perspective, it being pinned looks like it's the consensus among community.  Though, I have also seen YouTube videos saying the same thing.  So, it not being up there may not have saved me.  I heard the same thing from multiple sources.  So, I went with it. 

 

I've been having the worst run of luck with my guns lately... If anybody knows where I can get another block, I'm all ears, I guess. 

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Wow so that ridiculous thread claims another one.... wow. When will the mods here wake up and take that crap off the sticky list?

 

It may end up "fine". Or it may make for new problems. No way to tell except reassemble and try it. It will undoubtedly get more gas and likely will cycle better. That is still no reason to leave a thread up that causes people to keep butchering irreplaceable parts.

You should start a poll for taking it down.

 

Aye!

We're waaaay off the original topic, now, but I'm really curious.

 

I do have an auto-plug.  I would hope that would prevent over-gassing issues.  Though, I also have the 6-position plug.  If I prevent over-gassing it, am I in the clear? I guess I don't know how it would chew the puck up... is it excess hot gas, or is it friction from rougher edges around the hole?

 

I've got the CSS performance puck in there, but I also have the original (somewhere).  I'd rather it not chew up pucks, but I can live with it, as long as it's not instantaneous, and replacements are available.  

 

For the record, if that thread isn't the "straight dope", as my dad would say, I'm all for taking it down.  From a noob perspective, it being pinned looks like it's the consensus among community.  Though, I have also seen YouTube videos saying the same thing.  So, it not being up there may not have saved me.  I heard the same thing from multiple sources.  So, I went with it. 

 

I've been having the worst run of luck with my guns lately... If anybody knows where I can get another block, I'm all ears, I guess. 

Whatever you do, do not follow the advice of the iraqveteran888888888888888888 "Saiga 12.... professional results" video. I appreciate his service, but he is as lost as anyone else when it comes to appropriate techniques on making these things run.

 

Not that "straight dope", lol!

Edited September 17, 2014 by evlblkwpnz

[sccritterkiller 473]

Friction from passing over an uneven surface is my concern with the puck.I am running all stock parts, so I dont have any experience with aftermarket plugs. I shoot mine and monitor the rear of the carrier where it hits the receiver and all other internal parts points of friction ever time I clean it. So far no issues. With the tolerances being so wide with this platform not every gun reacts the same way to the same mod. Shoot it enjoy it but monitor it. As far a replacement GB goes..good luck. You will have to find one someone is parting out.

Edited September 17, 2014 by sccritterkiller

[OmegaX 5]

I'll just keep an eye on things, I guess.  I did bevel the edges some, but if I start seeing dings on the puck, would it help to really smooth it out?

[Wagnikov 186]

I think the distance of ejection is the best indicator of over gassed. I think 5-7' is a good tune. Still reliable but not excessive.10'+ is a prob imho

[sccritterkiller 473]

^this too....only issue I have noticed on D mod gun is with federal 1oz true ball slugs....the extractor will bend/tear the shell rim on ejection. It will run them all day and doesnt really ejection them much further than birdshot. I have another S12 and the slugs run in it too and the shell rims look normal after ejection. Not really sure why one gun does it and the other doesn't only difference is the GB mod....Time and resources have been directed towards other builds and I havent had time to research or do further testing.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Quit worrying about the D mod. It being a "bad/dangerous/hack job" to the gas block, is excessively blown out of proportion. There has to be hundreds of S12's in use (mine included) that have the modification done by a 'DIYer' and catastrophic failures because of it, are non existent.

Some folks disagree but the fact is, guns with the "D mod", work. The gas block doesn't give two shits if the window is shaped into a D or if it's just drilled out. I'd bet my S12 that the reason real gun smiths drill them is because of time saved. How's that old saying go.... time is money.

 

You answered your own issue about the extractor and rim tearing, yesterday, when you said "tolerances are so wide with this platform".

Edited September 18, 2014 by Mullet Man

[Wagnikov 186]

Quit worrying about the D mod. It being a "bad/dangerous/hack job" to the gas block, is excessively blown out of proportion. There has to be hundreds of S12's in use (mine included) that have the modification done by a 'DIYer' and catastrophic failures because of it, are non existent.

Some folks disagree but the fact is, guns with the "D mod", work. The gas block doesn't give two shits if the window is shaped into a D or if it's just drilled out. I'd bet my S12 that the reason real gun smiths drill them is because of time saved. How's that old saying go.... time is money.

You answered your own issue about the extractor and rim tearing, yesterday, when you said "tolerances are so wide with this platform".

+1 as long as you don't cut towards the piston side. And the whole "you have to leave the shoulder by the threads" is total bs. I have one gun w/o the d-mod that's takes a pipe wrench to remove. The gun with the d-mod is never more than hand tight. Ymmv

[Mullet Man 2,114]

And the whole "you have to leave the shoulder by the threads" is total bs.

I hear Ya. Obviously you want to remove as little material as possible but it's not a game changer if it gets filed into. With or without that shoulder, gas and carbon deposits get in the recessed ring. The regulator threads are what seals the system, not the shoulder.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Quit worrying about the D mod. It being a "bad/dangerous/hack job" to the gas block, is excessively blown out of proportion. There has to be hundreds of S12's in use (mine included) that have the modification done by a 'DIYer' and catastrophic failures because of it, are non existent.

Some folks disagree but the fact is, guns with the "D mod", work. The gas block doesn't give two shits if the window is shaped into a D or if it's just drilled out. I'd bet my S12 that the reason real gun smiths drill them is because of time saved. How's that old saying go.... time is money.

 

You answered your own issue about the extractor and rim tearing, yesterday, when you said "tolerances are so wide with this platform".

 

 Always the loudest one defending that D mod. Of course you don't want to admit you followed advice that led you to do a totally unnecessary hack job on your gas block when all it really needed was to be beveled the proper way from below. It is the way the weapon was designed and does in fact work very well when kept that way is why I defend that design and my method of uncovering blocked ports. You can say whatever you want but it's a hack job and you don't really know until someone fucks up their gas block following the same advice you did, and you keep on telling everyone is wonderful. Whatever man....