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Mullet Man

Muzzle crowning...

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So I picked up the "11° military muzzle re-crowning tool kit" in .30caliber and 11° mini polishing kit from Manson Reamers, since I have 5 .30cal rifles. All I gotta say is damn does this kit make the job easy to do. Crown muzzle (I used 3in1 oil as a lubricant) then use a green scotch brite pad followed up by the red pad, with the polishing kit to finish it off. It took all of 10 minutes to do the 30-30. My two m44's are next up for the work.

 

Great tooling, highly recommended if you want or need to tackle the job and don't want to pay and wait on a gunsmith.

I'm going to order the 17HMR specific kit next, since I'm eventually going to cut that barrel down to 17".

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b23lfzpZrJ4

Edited by Mullet Man
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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

 

 

Not Hi-Points

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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

 

 

Not Hi-Points

 

Having never even touched a hi-point of any kind but only going off of stories read, I could seen it being true. 

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Used to be many years ago that muzzle re-crowning was a fun required part of a general accuracy-izing (spell check not worth a shit today) of whatever rifle. I would be curious if you had a chance to compare before and after accuracy improvements before and after the precision muzzle crown job? HB of CJ (old coot)

 

I for one believe your stuff will shoot much better after that fun project.

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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

 

Every military rifle I own has a precision cut crown

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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

 

Every military rifle I own has a precision cut crown

 

Sorry, what I should have said, was a full precision crown. All of mine, including the 30-30, were tiny recessed crowns, set deep to a rounded off muzzle.

Used to be many years ago that muzzle re-crowning was a fun required part of a general accuracy-izing (spell check not worth a shit today) of whatever rifle. I would be curious if you had a chance to compare before and after accuracy improvements before and after the precision muzzle crown job? HB of CJ (old coot)

 

I for one believe your stuff will shoot much better after that fun project.

Nothing documented unfortunately, just from memory.

It is a fun project and something I've wanted to do for a long time now. The m44 muzzles are all dinged up and there was some pitting on my iz132. Those all cleaned up nicely.

Edited by Mullet Man
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Im pretty sure my 7.62 Saiga came with a crown is the degree the same or did yours not come crowned?

 

Yeah, a 45° crown is pretty standard for a military rifle, it keeps the crown recessed further back to protect from damage that could be seen in the field. All muzzles have a crown of some sort, but a nice precision cut crown will help with accuracy. Most military rifle crowns aren't precision cut.

 

 

Not Hi-Points

 

That's because Hi-Points aren't meant to be fired.  They are to be used to beat a person to death.

 

 

 

 

 

Or drive nails...

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so my 7.62 does have a crown but doing this like the OP did would increase accuracy?

and i assume my Saiga's crown and the OP's finished rifles crown are different degrees? Mine being 45 while his finished product being 11, is the the 11 degree crown preferred? how is it better? just curious thanks for the info so far lol

Edited by dieb4iwake

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So is this worth the effort?  I'm curious about this as well.  I don't know squat about it.

It was worth it to me because I have 5 rifles in .30cal, so I did them all. Everything I got from Manson cost $172 shipped plus a few dollars for both scotch brite pads. So just over $30 per muzzle for me, if I do the M92, the price drips even more. 

The 11° crown is considered the standard crown for target accuracy. Not that my rifles are target grade by any stretch, except the .17hmr. Every little bit helps in my opinion.

 

Edit; Manson offers an 11° or 0° option with their military kit. Other angle tool heads are extra.

Edited by Mullet Man
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I would love to see some groupings before/after with this.  I have many 30 cal rifles.  What is the Bubba factor if you do this to say Nagant rifles?  Would you be altering the rifle in such a way that would be considered Bubba'ing?  Or let me ask it this way, if you had a German numbers matching non-import stamped K98 vet bring back, would you be an asshole if you re-crowned the barrel.  BTW I don't have such a rifle but thought it would be a good example to use.

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I would love to see some groupings before/after with this.  I have many 30 cal rifles.  What is the Bubba factor if you do this to say Nagant rifles?  Would you be altering the rifle in such a way that would be considered Bubba'ing?  Or let me ask it this way, if you had a German numbers matching non-import stamped K98 vet bring back, would you be an asshole if you re-crowned the barrel.  BTW I don't have such a rifle but thought it would be a good example to use.

I'm an asshole anyway. I did my #'s matching very nice condition Izhmash m44 and an all but butt plate and stock (Hungarian wood on it) #'s matching Polish m44. I do like factoryish/period correctness in firearms until I can create more or better utilitarian use of them, shy of entering the twilight zone. I shoot mine and they won't ever be sold, so I don't particularly care about the collectability and monetary value of them.

 

Whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote.

Edited by Mullet Man
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I would love to see some groupings before/after with this.  I have many 30 cal rifles.  What is the Bubba factor if you do this to say Nagant rifles?  Would you be altering the rifle in such a way that would be considered Bubba'ing?  Or let me ask it this way, if you had a German numbers matching non-import stamped K98 vet bring back, would you be an asshole if you re-crowned the barrel.  BTW I don't have such a rifle but thought it would be a good example to use.

I'm an asshole anyway. I did my #'s matching very nice condition Izhmash m44 and an all but butt plate and stock (Hungarian wood on it) #'s matching Polish m44. I do like factoryish/period correctness in firearms until I can create more or better utilitarian use of them, shy of entering the twilight zone. I shoot mine and they won't ever be sold, so I don't particularly care about the collectability and monetary value of them.

 

Whatever floats your boat or finds your lost remote.

 

 

I wasn't trying to imply you did anything wrong, it was more a question to convince me that I should do it, I just don't want to do anything I would regret later.  I would probably recrown my NHM-91 but would not touch my Legend, or maybe I should recrown everything if it adds to accuracy.

 

Should recrowning be considered a modification of the gun?

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I wasn't trying to imply you did anything wrong, it was more a question to convince me that I should do it, I just don't want to do anything I would regret later.  I would probably recrown my NHM-91 but would not touch my Legend, or maybe I should recrown everything if it adds to accuracy.

 

Should recrowning be considered a modification of the gun?

 

I know and I didn't take it that way. I was just giving my stance on it.

I use and shoot my guns, therefore if accuracy can be improved to get better use of them, then its a worthwhile endeavor to me.

I think you should do whatever you want to YOUR firearms and fuck what anyone has to say. 

 

On the flip side...

If I owned guns for collectability or flipping for profit at a later date, I wouldn't do it.

Edited by Mullet Man
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My takeaway so far is that if I'm not shooting flies off of matchsticks, I'll never notice the difference in my weapon after doing this.  But, it does score some cool factor points.

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I have a 23" 54r Vepr on layaway now. So at a later date I will document before and after groupings of the crown modification, using 4-5 different commercial and surplus ammo loads.

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Mullet Man; great post and thank you. Since I also happen to have some 7.62mm and .308 rifles, now I need to start $saving up$ for one of those cool neat kits. In particular, the late Inland Carbine now employed may receive such a treatment. Also the Saiga 308 16"bbl. Thanks again. HB of CJ (old coot)

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Mullet Man; great post and thank you. Since I also happen to have some 7.62mm and .308 rifles, now I need to start $saving up$ for one of those cool neat kits. In particular, the late Inland Carbine now employed may receive such a treatment. Also the Saiga 308 16"bbl. Thanks again. HB of CJ (old coot)

Post up if you do it. I ordered by phone on a Monday morning and had the tooling by Thursday.  

My brother has a 91/30, SKS and .30carbine, I'm gonna see if he is interested in doing any of his.

 

Next issue for me is deciding to blue the muzzles now, or get some polishing compound and mirror finish the muzzles. They are almost a mirror finish now, after the red scotch brite pad but not perfect. I know the mirror finish will help with corrosion resistance. Thoughts, anyone?

Edited by Mullet Man
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I would blue/park it to hide the evidence and to protect the guilty. Also wondering if such a muzzle crown treatment would be considered legal for DCM and type matches? So far the M1 Carbine I have in mind for a general accuracy improvement work over is legal. The fun and trick is getting the little rifle tighter without breaking the rules.....or just getting caught. HB of CJ (old coot) smile.pngsmile.png

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Accuracy starts at the muzzle crown. Any irregularity there will upset the trajectory and stability of the round. The muzzle should be perfectly concentric,as the round is completely  unsupported as the end of the round leaves the barrel. Boat tail rounds gain some of their accuracy by keeping the muzzle blast centered and smoothing the drop of gas pressure on the round. The cleaner the round coming out of the barrel the better!

Crowning a decent crown will not make much difference, but if the crown FUBAR to begin with the difference can be night and d ay.

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