poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Dont know dont care The people in charge know more than me or you. Its their decision. Wow that's some blind faith there pal. Good luck with that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Pretty sure they wont gather up the neighborhood and put them in concentration camps 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Pretty sure they wont gather up the neighborhood and put them in concentration camps Why would you need to if you can make just lock them in their own homes indefinitely? And when you can get the population to thank you for imprisoning them, well you've really won. I recall the search for the Boston marathon bomber some cops knocked on a door, yanked the guy out, ran inside, shoved guns in the wife and babies face, and then the owner THANKED them for making him safe. Sorry that's a fucking idiot. It is ironic that you'd refer to others as sheeple in one post then turn around and admit blind obedience to police and their brass, because they clearly know more than you. When the police have had the supreme courts declare they have NO OBLIGATION to protect anybody, and while we sit back and watch our basic rights deteriorate one letter at a time from countless bills, it doesn't seem crazy or paranoid to realize that it's a down hill progression to complete police control. Maybe officers don't want that, but your mentality is the kind that will ALLOW it to happen. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Was the quarantine zone actually started? Was it immediately lifted AFTER the news of such was released nationally? I am curious about the exact timing with this. Excellent answers already given and thank you. I see this as just another test of the deep smooth waters. It may be similar to tactics used by invading armies or nations. Pull a little bit forward and see what response you get. Only it is happening here. It might be as dangerous as a preplanned test to see how the population responds in general nationally and specifically locally. Yep...why are so many agencies involved? This has to have been pre planned "response". Which raises many other ugly questions. Normally different agencies hardly speak to each other. Local turf and stuff. Yet here we may have, (if all of this true) a concerned co operation by lots of law enforcement. Local, State and now Federal. This does not bode well. Again, the response is way out of proportion to the alleged crime; if the crime actually happened at all. The exclusion zone might just be a major fuck up. If so, then heads still need to roll. Was martial law declared? Was the situation warrant able of declaring such a zone? Sadly, there will be zero accountability for any of this. None. That is scary. Curious the NFA is staying away from this? How about the ACLU? How about any of the other so called Constitutional Rights groups? We need more exact true information here. On the face value it is very bad. It is almost like the various agencies are hoping for a bad response by anybody withing the so called zone...or outside it. Kinda reminds me of Bundy out West. Our government appears to be out of control. Just me. HB of CJ (Old coot) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Politicians behind desks can pass any law they please, regardless of constitutionality, morality, or relevance. There is no limit on the chains they can place upon us. But who locks the shackles?? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 This happened on the 12th. This was hardly an active shooter situation. Since the Sept. 12 shooting, there have been no confirmed sightings of or contact with Frein, who was placed on the FBI's Most Wanted list after the ambush at the Blooming Grove police barracks that killed Cpl. Bryon Dickson, 38, and critically wounded Trooper Alex Douglass. Heavily armed police and federal agents on Friday (Sept. 19) descended on the community of Canadensis where Frein, 31, had lived with his parents, ordering residents to stay inside and preventing anyone outside the neighborhood from returning to their homes. Law enforcement officers wearing bulletproof vests and armed with rifles scoured the woods as helicopters buzzed overhead. Police ordered the lockdown, believing that Frein was close and there was the possibility of a confrontation, Bivens said. Now, they are telling residents to go about their normal lives but remain vigilant, keep their doors locked and stay out of the dense, boggy woods where the search is underway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 Dont know dont care The people in charge know more than me or you. Its their decision. It sure would be nice if you were more of an ambassador rather than ranting at those whom I think may not be too far off in their thoughts on these kind of situations. Your attitude makes the case for them. None of us have a clue what's going on so there will be a lot of speculations thrown about. You rushing to their defense screams the good ol' boy system that everyone is concerned about. This was NOT an active shooter situation. So you can love my two cents or hate it. Yer call... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 John I am impatient with some people, I give you that.! The constant blaming LE for each and every thing is getting old and wearing me down. You know if police do wrong I am the first to want justice. When people spew BS claiming fact I loose it. Just read, already this is some vast conspiracy to take our rights, or prep us for take over. ECT ECT oh come on!!! or the police taking over?? really??? The abject ignorance FRUSTRATES me! lay the known facts down and we can discuss ! police and all other humans make mistakes every day. A mistake is not a conspiracy GentlemanJim, I don't think anybody here hates police, and I'm willing to bet that most would agree with me when I say that we do respect what they do for us everyday. Here's the thing, originally, I was asking if 400 badges were really necessary for this manhunt. Now I know for a fact that it really wasn't. However, willing to let that go, tell me, if you have a community on lock down, and you're calling the shots, could you not take 20 of your 400 man army to give a police escort to those trying to get home and see that they make it in the door safely, if you really care about the people? Then, let people know that if they leave their homes they do so at their own risk. If someone is trying to leave the neighborhood, just look inside their vehicle. You can easily see people inside of a vehicle, so you could identify your suspect pretty easily. Don't ask to search it unless you REALLY have suspicions about it, i.e. a large amount of blankets in the back seat or something else to possibly conceal a person, in which case you may have probable cause to search anyways. Your argument from a previous post, GentlemanJim, about the "militarization" of police is, quite honestly, a whole entirely different topic altogether worthy of another forum. However, my personal feelings on the subject (and this IS just one guys opinion) is that we have police and we have a SWAT team. Do we need Andy Griffith and Barnie Fife? No, because society doesn't deserve them anymore. Society as a whole has lost a lot of respect for police, and thus police can no longer be completely respectful to society anymore, however, do they need to ALWAYS be in cop mode? HELL NO! Back on track to their gear, again, we have SWAT teams for a reason, and as far as I can tell, they always had more militarized tactics to begin with, so why not keep the military gear to the militarized SWAT team and leave the police how they've been for years now? A cruiser, a gun, a badge, and a uniform. That's how they've always been, that's how they should remain. And as far as the argument of how liberals argue the same thing about "assault weapons" (not saying you argued this, Jim, but it's been said by several others), well do you see everybody on this forum with an automatic rifle? We, for the most part do not get military rifles, we have semi automatic copies of the military rifles. Do you disagree? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 generally the public is better armed than the police. this case is no different, this guy is armed as well or better. in the case of that town/ neighborhood, NO doubt I would handle the public better as long as I could insure a relative level of safety. but with what I know about this guy, and what he has already done, and thats not all the info the police know, I would put every boot in the field I could find. I hope you dont count body amour and AR15s as military equipment. they are not. I wouldnt trust some people on this forum to feed my cat much less with a firearm. then there are some you could trust without question. there are tens of thousands of full auto firearms in legal hands, almost NEVER have they been used in crime by legal owners. I think there is some over reaction in this case. but its not cops being mean just for fun, or any kind of conspiracy. Thanks for a civil conversation!! I honestly hate the distinction between military and civilian rifles and gear, to a certain extent. Do I think we should walk around with RPG's? Nah, there really isn't a valid reason for them in the hands of civilians, but I always found the NFA/FOPA as government taking something away from people. So, to answer your question, no I do not find any civilian model of a military rifle or any form of body armor as "military equipment". I personally do not care that our police are receiving ex military equipment, but like I said in my earlier post, it needs to go to the SWAT team, not the local police station (mainly I'm speaking about the MRAP's). I don't care if the average police cruiser contains an AR-15 or some body armor. It's not in my mind "military gear", but they should still remain in uniform the majority of time and only deploy these items in the event of an active shooter. It really is a touchy subject and there really is no right or wrong answer. I don't believe in many conspiracies, and I don't think in this case there is one, either. I do, however, believe they could have handled this entire situation differently, similar to how I described above, and everyone would be praising them for caring and trying to keep them safe rather than condemning them. Anyways, to answer some of the above, no I don't believe any "firearm" should be labelled as "military", body armor is not a weapon nor has it ever been to the best of my knowledge so I don't see why sheeple are becoming so concerned with it recently, I hope I'm worthy of at least feeding your cat, and I too enjoy this conversation and keeping it civil. Arguing never helps a conversation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well, why doesn't Johnny Law just go in with his MRAP"s, automatic weapons, and ex-military helicopters and sweep the area until they find their man? Could it be (as usual) they are more worried about saving their own asses and projecting their power onto the innocent populace than they are taking a risk to locate the perp? Sounds like the bully tactics of a bunch of fucking cowards to me. If you want to walk the walk like you are some kind of bad-assed tier one operator step up and act like men, not like frightened cunts.... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Your rights are being infringed by the people elected to office. Not the police Without police officers whom simply belive that the man in charge " knows more than them" and does a he's told.. Those politicians infringements are pretty difficult it enact. By the way who exactly appoints those police chiefs? Citizens or politicians? The only thing worse than abject ignorance,is intellectual dishonesty. But hey let's keep it civil,right. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) It appears only a few people have complained about how the police have acted there. none of us know exactly what is going on there nor is it really any of our business, the bad guy could be in possession of communication, or holed up in someones house. so i dont want too much info in public. I am not defending actions just reacting to inaccurate interpretations and claims of posters, Many of which regularly complain about police and state ridiculous claims of abuse. In my county, about 4000 sq miles we have a population of 17,000 we are also responsible for about 80 miles of I40 We have 12 deputy's total. never more than three on at a time, most days just two. The entire dept works their butts off, never get to use all their vacation time and lose it at the end of year. I watch these people sacrifice every day to serve this community. one of our men was killed on I 40 hit by a reckless semi while helping an elderly lady . just a couple weeks ago my self and an other deputy did cpr on a man for over 40 minutes taking turns until the para medics showed up . My back and neck still hurt. A week before 2 other deputy's did the same. last year we hiked 20 hours in the mountains to find a lost hiker. Even with a tiny dept we teach ladies handgun and self defense classes twice a year. We have a JR deputy's program and take underprivileged and troubled kids in and teach them civics. Most stuff out of pocket by people in the department. I know what real police officers are all about, and its not what people here claim. so when folks start telling me how terrible the police are, i get angry case in point two posts up I think that might be a huge difference in our perspectives. I've lived in small towns and seen some cops pull some seriously bogus shit. In fact two of the towns the fbi came in and shut the police department down, shortly after the it's, closed the city hall. But, I also have had good experiences, but honestly it's just as you would express lack of relevance of the "peaceful majority" of Muslims in comparison to radicals, the bad can be really bad. And it comes off much worse when the good majority don't cry foul. Seriously events like the saturation of water town in Boston were very frightening, the martial law imposed and the general accepting of it was even scarier. Edited September 23, 2014 by poolingmyignorance 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) John I am impatient with some people, I give you that.! The constant blaming LE for each and every thing is getting old and wearing me down. You know if police do wrong I am the first to want justice. When people spew BS claiming fact I loose it. Just read, already this is some vast conspiracy to take our rights, or prep us for take over. ECT ECT oh come on!!! or the police taking over?? really??? The abject ignorance FRUSTRATES me! lay the known facts down and we can discuss ! police and all other humans make mistakes every day. A mistake is not a conspiracy Jim, you have an inside look at John Q. Public here. If you would just sit back, observe this type of thread (if you'd like) and learn what average people think, you just might not be so much on the defensive, but looking to resolve the tensions between the two sides. The guys chiming in on these type of threads are not gang banging piles of shit. They are the average hard working guy. Most are very intelligent. At least one has had a VERY bad go round with LEO (said person is staying way away from this thread BTW). IMO, if the average, law abiding person has these feelings there is a problem somewhere and it's not just them thinking LEO is trying to take over the world. There are some seriously fucked up LE out there. There probably always has been. But, with social media, it has become much more obvious how bad things are actually getting. Now on the flip side of that, things have become much harder for LE. You seem like a good guy Jim. You say your dept. is on the up and up and I believe you. I'm starting to see with my own eyes that they are not all like that. By not being able to stand back and observe these type of threads, you are doing more harm than good for your cause. You even have me thinking good ol' boy with the things you say. If you can't keep your temper here and allow people to vent, what are you doing on the street? Edited September 23, 2014 by Big John! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Your rights are being infringed by the people elected to office. Not the police Without police officers whom simply believe that the man in charge " knows more than them" and does a he's told.. Those politicians infringements are pretty difficult it enact. This is the point I think you miss Jim. This is a very legitimate point. If you don't see that, then I don't know what else to say... Edited September 23, 2014 by Big John! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 If you watch the news and the story is about something related to your job, you'll see that the media is reporting complete BS and has no idea what they are talking about. Let the distrust begin. There are people who are good at what they do and others not so much. Every job position has these and those who do good are always dragged down by the pinheads. Life sucks. Never forget the legendary top cop was a closet homo, blackmailer, trampled peoples rights and abused his position for decades all in the name of justice. Irony. I know several LE's and was at the SC academy graduation last week to see 42 new officers get their badges. Hopefully all will be great. But I know there will probably be one or two that will reflect badly on the others. Never take the internet to seriously, I could be in my moms basement........................ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well, why doesn't Johnny Law just go in with his MRAP"s, automatic weapons, and ex-military helicopters and sweep the area until they find their man? Could it be (as usual) they are more worried about saving their own asses and projecting their power onto the innocent populace than they are taking a risk to locate the perp? Sounds like the bully tactics of a bunch of fucking cowards to me. If you want to walk the walk like you are some kind of bad-assed tier one operator step up and act like men, not like frightened cunts.... So they should just charge right in? correct? That way if he's there they force a gun fight and everyone here can blame them if someones bullets happen to hit another house and kill a kid or an old person. Good idea! If they do nothing they are bad, if they act too agressive they are bad, if they dont move fast enough they are bad. Seems to me there is a lot of armchair quarterbacks. A few years ago my whole neightborhood was locked down as the cops searched for a man who killed his girlfriend and mother in law along with some other reletives. Girlfriend was killed in Va and he drove to Pa to kill the mother in law. During this he got into a shootout and a high speed chase with the local cops. All this was at night, during a hurricane. I didnt know about it and when i left my development in the morning to go get coffee i was stopped by 2 cops who had closed off the main road. They were armed with a AR and shotguns. They asked me where I was coming from and going to. I told them and they said you can go ahead but we cant promise you the other cops on the othre side of the road will let you back. I just went home. SO the whole time this guy is hiding in the woods and eventually shoot himself. So what were they supposed to do? Let everyone go about their business and if the guy happened to decide to have a shootout on a major highway with lots of traffic then so be it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Your rights are being infringed by the people elected to office. Not the police Without police officers whom simply believe that the man in charge " knows more than them" and does a he's told.. Those politicians infringements are pretty difficult it enact. This is the point I think you miss Jim. This is a very legitimate point. If you don't see that, then I don't know what else to say... This is my main point of concern also. When politicians make laws despite the best interest/ needs of the people, (which happens pretty often these days) someone has to enforce them. That someone is the police. Regardless of how many people are helped by their bravery, there are far too many hurt by their blind obedience. Even the best officer has to enforce immoral and unjust laws, and they enforce them with the threat of violence. Not every law breaker is a threat society, but they are apprehended and punished as such. Its sad to realize that good cops enforce bad laws. Edited September 23, 2014 by Boomsick42 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 0 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cvhanh20 1,052 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 I personally don't feel this a good cop, bad cop scenario, rather than a poorly executed plan from senior commanders. Sweep the area from house to house removing those in a dangerous then lock down that area for a full search. If my family was behind a no fly zone, you got to be out of you're fucking mind if you think I'm leaving their life's in the hands of guys making 39,000 a year, right! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Well, why doesn't Johnny Law just go in with his MRAP"s, automatic weapons, and ex-military helicopters and sweep the area until they find their man? Could it be (as usual) they are more worried about saving their own asses and projecting their power onto the innocent populace than they are taking a risk to locate the perp? Sounds like the bully tactics of a bunch of fucking cowards to me. If you want to walk the walk like you are some kind of bad-assed tier one operator step up and act like men, not like frightened cunts.... So they should just charge right in? correct? That way if he's there they force a gun fight and everyone here can blame them if someones bullets happen to hit another house and kill a kid or an old person. Good idea! If they do nothing they are bad, if they act too agressive they are bad, if they dont move fast enough they are bad. Seems to me there is a lot of armchair quarterbacks. A few years ago my whole neightborhood was locked down as the cops searched for a man who killed his girlfriend and mother in law along with some other reletives. Girlfriend was killed in Va and he drove to Pa to kill the mother in law. During this he got into a shootout and a high speed chase with the local cops. All this was at night, during a hurricane. I didnt know about it and when i left my development in the morning to go get coffee i was stopped by 2 cops who had closed off the main road. They were armed with a AR and shotguns. They asked me where I was coming from and going to. I told them and they said you can go ahead but we cant promise you the other cops on the othre side of the road will let you back. I just went home. SO the whole time this guy is hiding in the woods and eventually shoot himself. So what were they supposed to do? Let everyone go about their business and if the guy happened to decide to have a shootout on a major highway with lots of traffic then so be it? Yes. Freedom means danger. Exchanging large amounts of freedom for a little bit of safety is a shitty deal. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Since dude is now playing with the cops, this shit will more than likely go down when/where they least expect it anyhow. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vepr12x 89 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Bet the cops got to go to their homes. Typical hypocrite moves they always pull, they will pull you over fast as hell for talking on the phone but damn near everytime I see them they are driving around talking on the phone. Pull you over for a seat belt but they never wear a seat belt. I guess a badge really does make you superior to mere humans. alot of good people are getting sick of it, and when the tables turn its not gonna be fun for them. "Police brutallity" is going to take on a whole new meaning. We are sick of being abused. we are sick of seeing old folks tasered, beaten and even murdered. We are sick of seeing women raped and children put in comas, and the cops just get away with it and get a paid vacation. You want to make a law that makes sense? Double the sentence for all crimes commited by le and gov employees mandatory. Average citizen gets five years for a crime leo gets ten for the same crime. $100 ticket for talking on the phone while driving, leo gets $200 ticket. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Well, why doesn't Johnny Law just go in with his MRAP"s, automatic weapons, and ex-military helicopters and sweep the area until they find their man? Could it be (as usual) they are more worried about saving their own asses and projecting their power onto the innocent populace than they are taking a risk to locate the perp? Sounds like the bully tactics of a bunch of fucking cowards to me. If you want to walk the walk like you are some kind of bad-assed tier one operator step up and act like men, not like frightened cunts.... So they should just charge right in? correct? That way if he's there they force a gun fight and everyone here can blame them if someones bullets happen to hit another house and kill a kid or an old person. Good idea! If they do nothing they are bad, if they act too agressive they are bad, if they dont move fast enough they are bad. Seems to me there is a lot of armchair quarterbacks. A few years ago my whole neightborhood was locked down as the cops searched for a man who killed his girlfriend and mother in law along with some other reletives. Girlfriend was killed in Va and he drove to Pa to kill the mother in law. During this he got into a shootout and a high speed chase with the local cops. All this was at night, during a hurricane. I didnt know about it and when i left my development in the morning to go get coffee i was stopped by 2 cops who had closed off the main road. They were armed with a AR and shotguns. They asked me where I was coming from and going to. I told them and they said you can go ahead but we cant promise you the other cops on the othre side of the road will let you back. I just went home. SO the whole time this guy is hiding in the woods and eventually shoot himself. So what were they supposed to do? Let everyone go about their business and if the guy happened to decide to have a shootout on a major highway with lots of traffic then so be it? Yes. Freedom means danger. Exchanging large amounts of freedom for a little bit of safety is a shitty deal. I can see thatworking out real good in my example. Guy decides to have a shootout right there on a busy street and later there are lawsuits out the ass from people who were wounded or from reletives of those who died. Also gives lots of hostages to hide behind On the other had cops are assholes and nazis if they close of the road and dont allow anyone to drive through Edited September 26, 2014 by Arik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Let's not lose track of the fact that this was not an active shooter situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Seems to me the citizens are less scared of this guy then the government enforcement agents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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