DavidQ 170 Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) I recently purchased a case of 1000 rounds of American Eagle 5.56x45 but I have some concerns. This ammo is listed as factory first run ammo, not once fired brass but upon inspection of a few boxes it appears that it actually might be reloaded. All cases have scraping like they have been in a chamber at one time, some have dents near the shoulder of the brass, and some have a weird pick near the primer. Headstamp has the nato cross, LC and 14. Are all these things normal? Here are some pics of what I'm talking about. Weird crimp to the left The 2 cases to the right are the ones with the weird crimp at the primer. You can see some of the dents on the cases. Edited September 23, 2014 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TapeWorm3 104 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Looks like Lake City is packaging their seconds as American Eagle (Federal owns both companies). But head stamp is 2014 production. I got a case of loose ammo from Lake City recently that was dented up like yours is. Shoots and reloads fine though.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Could this be mil surplus fired brass that was the subject of contention a few years back? DOD was scraping their fired brass or being sold to China as I remember instead of allowing it to be sold for domestic reloading. Then that order was reversed after a while due to the outcry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well it does have a 2014 year date stamp on it and the box so I doubt it. I'm just not sure about it. I mean I got a case for $299 so I thought I was getting a great deal for brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 The year is almost over though.... plenty of time for them to be reloads from this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 From this year maybe. It's just that I wouldn't have purchased it if they were reloads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 The 4 stake primer crimps and dented shoulders are more than likely reloads. I would be contacting the company that sold them to me if they sold them as virgin brass. Maybe someone else with more reloading experience than I can speak up. But that type of primer crimp is typically used a lot when the primer pocket starts to loosen up. I could be wrong. I received some Freedom munitions 300BLK that were cutdowns from LC 5.56 brass. Some had the 4 stake crimped primers, some did not. I have not attempted to reload any of the 4 crimped primers as It appeared that the crimping actually deformed the primer pocket. As far as the dents, they will reload just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 I originally purchased 1000 round bulk pack if federal 5.56 from Palmetto state armory but their inventory was wrong so they subbed this out instead claiming it was the same product just packaged in 20 boxes. I already contacted them and expect to hear back in the next few days about it and I also will be contacting the manufacturer about it as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if it's reloaded brass - but it's really hard to tell. Shitty as it is, reloaded brass can be sold as "new ammunition" with no note that the brass has already been used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 XM, call it ex-military. The shit that doesn't cut the high standards and shoots just fine is sold to you as xm(whatever) or american eagle. etc. The brass is good stuff, the ammo is good. Just machine marks around the primer. Dents from conveyor belts and tips landing on another case, annealed around the heads is the color you see on the neck. Done by FIRE! It's new Lake City military ball ammo, it just never made it to the infantry. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted September 23, 2014 Report Share Posted September 23, 2014 It's shootin ammo, not lookin at ammo. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 I got some xm 180cs (i think) 7.62x51 ammo and i noticed the same kinds of things you're seeing here. So far the s308 doesn't give a shit what it looks like, it just consumes and asks for more! I guess when i get a lil more into reloading i may find issues with the gnarly ones but even so, the majority should still be reloadable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 So what your saying is I should just say I got it for a great deal and shoot the crap out of it? I think i can do that. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Yes you can shoot the crap out of it and it will be just fine, just not the best best brass for reloading. I don't disagree with Stryker often but that primer crimp is not machine marks, it is intentionally done to secure the primer. Won't make a difference in shooting it though. If your not worried about reloading it, shoot it and enjoy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Excellent subject. Can you examine the fired brass? It is Boxer primed? I for one have not seen that kind of 4 slot type crimping around the primer. The cases almost look like they have been run thru a SAW light machine gun. Examine the rims. You might have to use a pair of binoculars and turn them around and make them into an expedient magnifying glass. Look for tiny burrs where the cases might have been violently extracted from an auto weapon. Look at the boxes. Does it say anything in fine print about recycled or re claimed components? Are the bullets military spec SS109 with the hardened steel inserts inside? Can you pull a couple and identify the powder type? Very strange and thank you for bringing it to this Fine Forum. My best guess right now in lack of other knowledge or evidence is that the ammo may not be completely what they say it is. Worst case? Counterfeit. HB Does the box say anywhere that it is "X" something...like XSS109 ammo? The "X" would mean that for any number of reasons the ammo was not accepted by the military/govment. Does not mean it is bad ammo...just not accepted. May not mean it is rejected ammo either. Lots of reasons why the govment will not accept a particular lot of ammo. Good luck. You are probably OK using the ammo, but if it was me, I would want to know more. Just me. Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 I did a little more research on the stake crimped primer. They can be reloaded with swaging. I just find it odd that you would get mixed crimping, some annular and some staked in the same batch of factory loaded ammo unless the brass has been reloaded. Even with the brass deprimed, sized, and the primer pocket swaged, the stake crimp marks are still evident. However the pics you posted above clearly show the staking occurring after the brass had been reprimed. You can see it by the brass deformation and the stakes on the live primer. Very odd. I say shoot it and forget about it. I haven't had any issues with the reman 300 BLK with the same marks. I have to admit though, it is puzzling and I would like to know the explanation for the different crimping methods used in the same batch of ammo. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 not reloaded for sure you cant crimp a primer pocket a second time, and you swage before re priming just didnt make milspec who knows why. some odd balls in the mix, it happens. its good ammo, i have shot a bunch of it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Hold onto that odd stake crimp. It looks lucky. Have any of you ever found tungsten in surplus offerings? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 No but i have seen some odd rounds in bulk packaging Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) It was odd that only 2 of the stake crimped primers were in a box of 20. I just don't understand why these are marketed as first run, first quality ammo when it is not. I believe it when you say that they are rejected due to imperfections in the brass and such but they do look like they have been fired from a weapon. There are fine lines along the length of the brass like they were in a chamber. I have never seen any ammo purchased from a retailer that looks like it's been sitting in grandpa's old shooting box for a couple years. Edited September 25, 2014 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Any number of reasons can cause the ammo not to make milspec. like a couple fps fast or slow. its new ammo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Those crimps are the quick decaying primers, so use em up quickly! ...ducks and runs for cover at shitstorm about to happen! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 ROFL! Probably SAW ammo. Auto ammo seemed to have staked primers like old ma deuce. Not sure why they did it. I don't think they would be selling reloads, let me know what you find out from the company. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Based on this photo, can you tell me which brass is new vs which is once fired? (Some of this ammo is not the LC brass) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 when it gets processed for reloading it gets tumbled. the annealing discoloration goes away looks like you have once fired and not reloaded next to un fired Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Here is a pic with the flash. Can you tell which is which? It's really hard to show how similar these cases look with the naked eye through pics. Look towards the bottom of the case. Seems like they have been in a chamber before due to the bottom being brighter than the rest of it. The once fired brass has the same color marks at the bottom as the "new production" where the rim and bottom portion are out of the chamber when fired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I would guess the last four are reloads, but I'm guessing. They do look different from the first four. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 but the once fired brass has not been reprocessed or reloaded at least commercially if i were to guess with this very poor pic i would say the right 4 were fired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 the marks on the case could be low lube during load resulting in rejection of milspec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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