Lazy way to build an AK - is it safe?

[Shandlanos 1,470]

So, I have an AK parts kit or two, but not all of the proper tools to build one out. I have a trigger guard riveting jig and press - I've already riveted the trigger guard. I was thinking about installing the front end by a lazy method, even lazier than a screw build. Instead of drilling holes where the front six rivets used to be and tapping them for screws, I'm considering drilling those holes with a precision drill bit on a drill press, sinking rivets into the holes, and welding the heads of the rivets to the receiver with a mig setup.

So, is that an absolutely idiotic, unsafe idea? Or will it work well enough to keep the weapon from blowing itself up?

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

On the rear trunion it will work,but the front requires more flex. Those welds will begin to crack after a while. A while might be a few magazines too.

[BB1980 71]

Some folks swear by weld builds. I've never done one. Here is a 4x4 forum where some folks discussed the different ways and there experiences. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/outdoor-sports-recreation/764965-ak-47-build-screw-rivet-weld-super-glue.html

[Shandlanos 1,470]

On the rear trunion it will work,but the front requires more flex. Those welds will begin to crack after a while. A while might be a few magazines too.

Keep in mind I'm not doing plug welds - just securing the rivets in place with surface welds.

 

 

Some folks swear by weld builds. I've never done one. Here is a 4x4 forum where some folks discussed the different ways and there experiences. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/outdoor-sports-recreation/764965-ak-47-build-screw-rivet-weld-super-glue.html

Will read that thread right now, thanks!

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

 

 

On the rear trunion it will work,but the front requires more flex. Those welds will begin to crack after a while. A while might be a few magazines too.

Keep in mind I'm not doing plug welds - just securing the rivets in place with surface welds.

 

 

I know exactly what your intentions are. And that's what I'm taking about. I've welded plenty of rear trunion rivets without issue. Front ones fail. Eventually.

[G O B 3,516]

That is ONE way to commit suicide! NO you CANNOT do it that way it is beyond unsafe, it is recipe for hurt!

Screw builds are bad, what you are proposing is much worse. Rivets are used by the factory because of their unique properties. When the rivet is set, the body of the rivet EXPANDS and fills the hole it is in. Even if both pieces are not perfectly aligned or one hole is slightly over sized THE RIVET FILLS THE HOLE COMPLETELY! The rivet also provides incredible clamping force.

Screws DO NOT fill the hole, they do not EXPAND. Screws have clamping force ONLY, the holes are NOT filled, unless the screw holes are precision reamed to be a press fit to the body of the screw.

What you propose is to loose the 2 strengths of rivets-both clamping force and and expansion of the rivet body to completely FILL the holes. You will not even have the clamping force of the screws.

Loose rivets that are welded to the receiver will SHEAR. It is not MAY fail. This WILL FAIL! Catastrophic failure.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

That is ONE way to commit suicide! NO you CANNOT do it that way it is beyond unsafe, it is recipe for hurt!

Screw builds are bad, what you are proposing is much worse. Rivets are used by the factory because of their unique properties. When the rivet is set, the body of the rivet EXPANDS and fills the hole it is in. Even if both pieces are not perfectly aligned or one hole is slightly over sized THE RIVET FILLS THE HOLE COMPLETELY! The rivet also provides incredible clamping force.

Screws DO NOT fill the hole, they do not EXPAND. Screws have clamping force ONLY, the holes are NOT filled, unless the screw holes are precision reamed to be a press fit to the body of the screw.

What you propose is to loose the 2 strengths of rivets-both clamping force and and expansion of the rivet body to completely FILL the holes. You will not even have the clamping force of the screws.

Loose rivets that are welded to the receiver will SHEAR. It is not MAY fail. This WILL FAIL! Catastrophic failure.

And to clarify I've only welded over finished rivets.never used one merely ass fill rod.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

^ Good to know. Between that and the forum post that was linked, it's clear I need to go with quality plug welds. I don't have the money to buy a proper riveting jig and barrel pressing jig - but I do have access to a mig welder. For less than $20 in drill bits, I should be able to reproduce what those fellows on the linked page have done.

[csspecs 1,987]

As expensive as parts kits have become, I'd imagine that either buying the correct tools or selling the kits would be a better idea than building them incorrectly.

 

Or try to find one of the "build parties" within driving distance.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Nah - I have a spare front end with a badly dented RSB that I don't much give a shit about - there is no rest of the kit, it's just going to be a mishmash of crap. If it were a full kit, especially something with matching numbers, it'd be a different story. This is going to be a frankengun, welding it together doesn't bother me.

[TIMTIMTIM 57]

Do a screw build or buy a press and the correct bit. Give youa $100 for that piece of crap kit

[VR762Shooter 838]

With a $15 bolt cutter and some time with a Dremel you can make a rivet press for the front trunnion

[mancat 2,368]

Welding can interfere with the heat treating of the receiver and trunnion as well.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I love welding things...

 

and I still wouldn't recommend this.

[G O B 3,516]

Weld makes a hard plug joint, that can crack, this is not 'fail safe'. It can fail all at once with little warning. Rivets are softer than the metal they join so the rivets loosen up slowly, and are obvious before failure.That makes them 'fail safe' because impending failure is self evident.

The factory uses rivets for that reason, and also because it makes it re-arsenalble.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

I used bolt-cutters to squeeze my rivets.

 

"Easy-Squeezy".

 

$20 bolt-cutters and a couple hours of Dremel Art.

 

Used for all the rivets, except the trigger guard. That was a "fun" hour of hammering cold rivets, with a narrow punch.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sim_Player

[Shandlanos 1,470]

My only issue with using rivets on the front trunnion is having to then dick with pressing the barrel in and out - I really don't have the proper tools to do so, or to headspace the barrel properly. I have a 20-ton shop press, but not the other tools. If someone can expound on the method for using a pair of bolt cutters as a riveting tool, and suggest a method for safely pressing the barrel in and out and headspacing it correctly without spending a bunch of money on extra tools - I'm wide open to suggestions. A weld build isn't preferable or ideal - but I'd like another rifle up and running.
 

 

Do a screw build or buy a press and the correct bit. Give youa $100 for that piece of crap kit

I've had shit luck with taps breaking off - and I started working on this front end to make it a screw build. There's a broken off tap in one of the holes, that I've spent a good hour and a half smacking with a punch to break apart - still have chunks in the hole. The kit isn't for sale It's destined to be another rifle. I "don't give a shit about it" in the same sense that I don't give a shit about a WASR-10 - I'll run it over or chuck it out of a plane to see what happens, but it's not for sale.

[Sim_Player 1,939]

I'll try to dig up my build thread. Pressed barrel with a mallet and I-clamp, set headspace, then reamed a slot in the new barrel. The only shop tool I had was a good vise. A friend spot-welded the inner-rails at his work.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/91801-my-bulgy-build-finally-finished/?hl=build

Edited October 15, 2014 by Sim_Player

[TIMTIMTIM 57]

I have had no luck making bolt cutters work. I broke them. I tried making my own from the h.f. bolt cutters. I really didn't want to spend $$ on akbuilder jaws. I bought a ball head bit from eBay for $5.00. Drilled holes for the rivets to set in and used a bucking bar made from a grade 8 bolt. Some of the heads are not real pretty but it's solid.

 

My only issue with using rivets on the front trunnion is having to then dick with pressing the barrel in and out - I really don't have the proper tools to do so, or to headspace the barrel properly. I have a 20-ton shop press, but not the other tools. If someone can expound on the method for using a pair of bolt cutters as a riveting tool, and suggest a method for safely pressing the barrel in and out and headspacing it correctly without spending a bunch of money on extra tools - I'm wide open to suggestions. A weld build isn't preferable or ideal - but I'd like another rifle up and running.

 

 

 

Do a screw build or buy a press and the correct bit. Give youa $100 for that piece of crap kit

I've had shit luck with taps breaking off - and I started working on this front end to make it a screw build. There's a broken off tap in one of the holes, that I've spent a good hour and a half smacking with a punch to break apart - still have chunks in the hole. The kit isn't for sale It's destined to be another rifle. I "don't give a shit about it" in the same sense that I don't give a shit about a WASR-10 - I'll run it over or chuck it out of a plane to see what happens, but it's not for sale.

[gunfun 3,931]

Look up ginsboy2003 on youtube. He has some really good step by step build tutorials using the toth brand bolt cutter riveter, and I think another series doing the rivets with a shop press. That should answer all your questions about how that tool works out.