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JDeko

Zastava/Yugo M57 Tokarev

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Whilst I'm looking, opinions on EAA Witness Pistols? Also Rock Island Armory's 1911s?

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Whilst I'm looking, opinions on EAA Witness Pistols? Also Rock Island Armory's 1911s?

Rock Island Armory 1911's are amazing. They're the same brand as "Armscor" and I was so impressed with my first 1911 from them that I bought two more.  First one was a 10mm Auto, second two in .45ACP. 

 

You simply cannot beat the value on those pistols - the fit and finish on them is top-knotch, they have performed absolutely, positively flawless, and in my honest opinion are just as nice as guns twice their price. 

 

post-49927-0-82383300-1414223166_thumb.jpg 

 

You simply cannot go wrong with them, and if you're planning on one I'd suggest getting one sooner than later - they've been getting a lot of good press in the magazines and online reviews, as more people find out about them, I would expect their prices to go up in the coming years. 

 

Cheaper than Dirt and Centerfire Systems have some great retail prices that sometimes beat my dealer prices, and I believe both stock these brands (100% positive about CTD.) 

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good to hear they are of quality, as the 1911 I'd been considering [the Remington R1] has gone up a fair bit in price this year.

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Love my surplus M57's. Thinking about grabbing a new production model, but I hear the craftsmanship is slightly lacking compared to the original C&R's..

 

post-7122-0-79628500-1414224986_thumb.jpg

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That's a little surprising. I would think if anything modern metallurgy would be better, and machining quality might suffer. KC - can you link any of those reviews?

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Maybe Yugoslavia had access to better quality steel when they were annexed into the USSR?

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That never happened.


The government under Tito was closely modeled after the USSR, but it was an independent nation.

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Oh yeah! Tito was Yugoslavia! I know he was pretty independent of the Kremlin so I suppose Yugos wouldn't be using Russian steel then if they aren't now.

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Or those Catamount Fury Shotguns that have barrels too soft for anything but lead shot

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good to hear they are of quality, as the 1911 I'd been considering [the Remington R1] has gone up a fair bit in price this year.

 

I mean it.  These are quality firearms that far surpassed my expectations.  I can't say anything bad about them, honestly.  I work in the business, and we don't even have them in stock right now - I was still singing their praises to customers the past couple days.  I'm not going to be the commissioned guy just trying to talk up a product - I own these guns and can personally vouch for them.  I tend to talk about them more than other 1911's because they're not as well-known - more than happy to share my personal experience - and if I can persuade someone into saving nearly half a grand on a gun that will perform every bit as well as a similar one, that price difference will buy several boxes of ammo to practice with and even a couple to keep as SD rounds.  smile.png

 

Another thing to consider - I would bet money on these pistols going up in price in the next year or two based on the reviews they've been getting and any publicity they get online.  Rock Island Armory, Armscor, and ATI (American Tacitacal Imports) are all under the same umbrella, same company, same guns, too...  Just something else to look out for.

 

Love my surplus M57's. Thinking about grabbing a new production model, but I hear the craftsmanship is slightly lacking compared to the original C&R's..

 

attachicon.gifM57s.jpg

 

Nice set...  I haven't seen one that didn't have the blued finish in person so far. 

 

I plan on snagging a "grade A" surplus one soon, so that I can judge the difference between it and the new civilian marketed version, as well as a new production 9mm version.  Hadn't had any personal shooting experience with the mil-surp TT's but have handled them.  Given their relatively low cost, one should be on the high end of my bucket list.

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I'm really glad to hear the Rock Island ones are good, I think I may just get the Tactical model because with the walnut grip and the rail under the barrel it looks like a 1911 and a Chiappa Rhino made a baby together.

 

I'm just sad the "gaudy" ones with the GIANT "ROCK ISLAND" scrawled on the slide are being replaced with the ones bearing just a little symbol in the back. Hopefully they haven't skyrocket too much in price by February when i hope to have the money to get one. 

 

Maybe I'll save the Tokarev for if I ever feel like buying a firearm solely for the fact it seems interesting. Or if I'm poor as shit still in February I can just by the Tokarev and keep lurking on the sites of people that make hollow point 7.62x25mm rounds so i can stock up in case... I dunno I'm besieged in my home by a freaking detachment of crackheads and can't get to my Saiga?

 

I'm a spaz, by December I'll be contemplating a EAA Witness or something more heavily XD

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They are one of the coolest looking pistols I've ever seen, and supposedly they're a lot easier to shoot since they fire from the lowest chamber. I just don't really trust myself to be able to defend myself with a wheel gun [if I did trust myself a Governor or Judge would be pretty tempting].

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Since you seem to be relatively inexperienced with much of what we have been discussing, I would suggest trying a Governor or Judge before using as a defensive gun. Wheel guns that are not compensated use none of the energy from the projectile and gases for anything but throwing the projectile. They have much more felt recoil than you will get out of a semi-auto in the calibers we have been discussing. Frame make and bullet weight can have a big impact as well as the overall size of the gun. My wife's snubby .38 is too much for her because of the airweight frame and small size of the grip. She actually would choose the G17 I have as a defensive pistol before she'd choose her own gun because she can't comfortably shoot it. A big part of accuracy in a defensive situation is knowing and having trained with your gun. If it is too uncomfortable to practice with it isn't going to be a good choice.

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Governor wasn't too hard to shoot, blew through the 40-so .410 00 buckshot rounds I shot with no issues besides my palms stinging at the end.

 

Now the S&W .38 Bodyguard?  Most unpleasant gun I ever shot. Uncomfortable to hold, trigger kinda unpleasant in double-action. I hate that gun with a passion. The 629 was scary because how hard the barrel would shoot up from the .44 recoil but I'd choose it over the .38 any day of the week to try to save my life with.

I've shot a few guns so I know SOME of what I'm talking about.

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They are one of the coolest looking pistols I've ever seen, and supposedly they're a lot easier to shoot since they fire from the lowest chamber. I just don't really trust myself to be able to defend myself with a wheel gun [if I did trust myself a Governor or Judge would be pretty tempting].

 

I've not personally shot a Rhino yet, but given the direction in which the force is directed toward your hand, there is less muzzle rise (a very good thing) - but if someone is used to shooting a traditional hogleg, my thinking is the first hard-wired instinct on a rapid follow up shot in DA mode would over-compensate for the rise, and the second shot would likely land lower than intended. 

 

Regardless, I'm very anxious to get a hold of one and test this theory out.

 

As far as the 45/.410 revolvers go, I'm a fan.  The added weight of even the 2.5" chambered cyllinder of a Judge with the 2" bbl will kick less than firing a .38 out of a snubnose .357.  VR6 hit the nail on the head about frame size/weight, how hot the load is, and felt recoil.  As long as we're on the subject, if I had to choose between the Judge and the Governor, I'd pick the Judge.  Build quality isn't as flawless as the S&W, but for the price difference, it's certainly a better value and they make a rather solid gun.  As for the ability to shoot .45ACP - I can certanly live without the ability to fire a round meant for a semi-auto pistol through a revolver with the added nuisance of loading them into moon clips before I can even use 'em. 

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Indeed, and though I don't know the penetrative force of the 00 coming out of the Governor when I shot it at paper [.410 is supposedly very weak sauce] the pattern was a nice vertical diamond that could very easily take out a whole lung or heart beyond recognition.

 

If I'm ever well off I'd be tempted to get a Raging Judge just to have one and maybe to give to a kid or my nephew if he grows up to be tolerable XD

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Don't think I've ever seen any #00 rounds chambered in .410 - you probably shot #000 Buckshot - a single shell can hold as many as four in a 2.5" or five in the full 3" magnum - I could be wrong, but I don't think S&W offers their version of the Judge with a cylinder that will take a 3" .410 shell. 

As for the round itself, there will be nay-sayers and fanboys all about talking trash about the ballistics, but I wouldn't want to be on the business end of either one.  I've seen the damage they do first-hand, and it ain't pretty. 

I'm in the process of building a Saiga-410 with a "Slide-Fire" stock (already have those two parts) which I'll be adding a vertical foregrip and 30 rd drum to.  The idea of dumping 150 triple-ought projectiles at a target in the span of five seconds or so is rather appealing to me, and I've seen it done, so I know it will feed and function reliably - after all, we're talking about a Saiga here...  :)

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Yeah, it was 000. When you said that it reminded of that since at the time I thought that was smaller than 00. Either way it'd leave an entrance wound like you stabbed them with a chainsaw. How deep it goes I can't attest to but I know closing that wound would be a real pain.

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This is true. I also wonder when a reviewer said that they're iffy about it for defense because of the spread at 10 yards. At close range it spread birdshot across a whole face-sized target, seems like a good way to blind someone and generally make them combat ineffective.

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Oh, for sure - Judge and similar guns are specific purpose firearms, and damned good at their intended purpose.  It's wise to keep the cylinders loaded in a specific order so that they can handle a threat in a calculated order.  Plus, they make excellent trail guns for hiking where you might run across a poisonous snake (and I have to stress this here - most snakes, and spiders for that matter, are NOT dangerous to humans, and live their lives out by removing far more troublesome insects or disease-carrying rodents from bothering us.) 

Still, they're nice guns to have.  :)

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In his "review" of a Tokarev variant Hickok45 seemed to have some issues when it was time to pop in a new mag, anyone here with an M57 have input on the process of inserting a magazine with the slide back after emptying the previous mag?

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DO you have the link? I wonder if he had the safety engaged. I noticed on one of my Toks that when the safety is  engaged it doesnt alow the trigger bar to move and it blocks mag insertion. I believe this was only on the Romanian, though. As the M57 uses the safety thats added on the rear of the gun instead of at the trigger

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DO you have the link? I wonder if he had the safety engaged. I noticed on one of my Toks that when the safety is  engaged it doesnt alow the trigger bar to move and it blocks mag insertion. I believe this was only on the Romanian, though. As the M57 uses the safety thats added on the rear of the gun instead of at the trigger

 

Boop

 

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