TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 I know this will sound crazy, but I have a converted Saiga 308 that repeatably shoots 3/4" groupings. I have been disappointed with every scope mount I have tried. I want to put my 2.5-10x32 on it for pig and deer hunting, but none of the scope mounts I have tried work. I sight in, shoot 3/4" groupings, put in my safe, and next trip to the range it's off by 4". I can also push really hard on the mount and make it shift. Does anyone make a super stiff and rigid mount that can hold a tight zero with a powerful optic? I'm frustrated to the point of designing and building one myself... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Get you a thick piece of rail, flip the rear sight, screw it to the rail. Make a rear stand and screw it to the tang. It works great, have had this on for a few years and it still shoots well. The rifle has a diff scope on it now. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) What mounts have you tried? RS Regulate makes some that are pretty damn beefy, light, low profile and quick detach. They've been proven to retain zero. Is your side rail tight, no loose rivets that can cause loss of zero? What scope are you using? Its a system so just asking if you've eliminated all variables. Bunch of different scope mounts and I'm assuming the same scope, might be good to start looking at things other than the mounts.... Red..... that is ummm.... interesting. Edited November 19, 2014 by Mullet Man 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Have you tried the TWS Dog Leg? http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/product_p/tws-mount.htm There is a video about it on Brownell's. I've seen other dog leg rails that fix to the sight block and screw down to the tang, also. Much like Red's, above. Edited November 19, 2014 by YOT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Red..... that is ummm.... interesting. I expected nothing less Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Parabellum makes a very good mount. Superior to the TWS in terms of rigidity and mounting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Red, that is nearly identical to what I was thinking. I have a 2.5-10x32 Nightforce, for the 16" carbine, and a 5.5-25x56 Nightforce for my 22" rifle. Both are chambered in 308 win. I do not want a low-profile mount, would prefer something that allows me to pull the bolt carrier and dust cover without disturbing the scope. I do not care for the TWS rail, or other dust cover rails. They do not return to zero when you are shooting with the accuracy of my 308s. Also Mullet, I have tried UTG, Kalinka, TWS, and have a midwest industries on the way. No loose rivets on side rail. The UTG is actually the best so far for rigidity, but doesn't quite return to zero. Once I sight it in at 100 yards with that 10x scope all my bullet holes touch. Wouldn't be able to do that if my rail was loose. Edited November 22, 2014 by TxAgSaiga1979 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 The hardest part of what I made is getting the rear stand the right height. Yes I can clean the rifle bolt with out removing the scope, dust cover and bolt come out very easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Red, do you just shoot it with a chin weld position rather than a cheek? My long-barrel S308 has a magpul PRS stock with an adjustable cheek riser, but my carbine has a KVAR stock on it containing the cleaning kit, and I have not found a decent cheek riser solution for that stock, and I don't care for shooting with a chin weld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Google this.... Aim Sports AK/SAIGA Adjustable Top Rail Mount with Tri-Rail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 With the by pod I put my off hand on the stock and let my face rest on my hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 With the by pod I put my off hand on the stock and let my face rest on my hand. How do you control the elevation like that? I put my off hand under the stock and use it like a sand bag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 With the by pod I put my off hand on the stock and let my face rest on my hand. How do you control the elevation like that? I put my off hand under the stock and use it like a sand bag. I hold it up, use a bag sometimes, and sometimes not. Now shooting from a standing position is a bit of a challenge, the rifle is heavy, and the chin weld is what I use. I dont shoot a lot standing with the Saiga, I have a FNAR for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Parabellum makes a very good mount. Superior to the TWS in terms of rigidity and mounting. That is false. While the Parabellum mount appears to have a good attachment point at the front, it attaches to the regular AK dust cover at the rear, with the standard AK takedown button in a plain square hole in thin sheet metal. It lacks the camming action of the TWS mount to hold it solidly against the receiver at the rear, so it can move a little. Since the TWS replaces the dust cover entirely, rather than overlaying it, it is also a slightly lower mount. If you could make a mount like the TWS but with the Parabellum type mount in the front, I think you might then have the best mount. Edited January 30, 2015 by Netpackrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 NETPACKRAT, LET ME ASK WHAT MAY WELL BE A 'TUPID QUESTION..... CAN'T YOU BUY THE TWS RECOIL SPRING ASSEMBLY WITH ITS SPECIAL END PIECE? HOW WELL WOULD THAT WORK, COMBINED WITH THE PARABELLUM TOP COVER? JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Parabellum makes a very good mount. Superior to the TWS in terms of rigidity and mounting. You forgot the better price too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) NETPACKRAT, LET ME ASK WHAT MAY WELL BE A 'TUPID QUESTION..... CAN'T YOU BUY THE TWS RECOIL SPRING ASSEMBLY WITH ITS SPECIAL END PIECE? HOW WELL WOULD THAT WORK, COMBINED WITH THE PARABELLUM TOP COVER? JESS1344 I kind of doubt if it would work at all. The TWS takedown button is made at an angle, and is designed to work with the TWS cover. Also, the TWS mount is milled from aluminum, and thicker than the standard stamped dust cover used with the parabellum mount. Even if the TWS would mate up with it and provide the downward force that makes the TWS work, I would expect it to deform the thin, stamped sheet metal over time. And the plain stamped cover does not have the tension tab on the side that the TWS has to prevent side to side motion. Parabellum relies on the hinge at the front to resist all sideways motion, but with the weight of an optic on the mount, that's a lot of leverage to put on a single point of the hinge. Better to hold it solid at the front AND the rear like the TWS. As I said, I actually like the wider hinge that Parabellum used at the front of their mount. But they missed the boat by not mounting it solid at the rear of the receiver, and by re-using the stamped dust cover. Even in a world without the TWS system, I would still not use the Parabellum... I'd probably go with something like RS Regulate, Krebs, or an Ultimak as my second choice, depending on optic type. Edited February 8, 2015 by Netpackrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Parabellum makes a very good mount. Superior to the TWS in terms of rigidity and mounting. You forgot the better price too. Since they are essentially making half a mount, I would expect the price to be lower. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Your analysis makes sense to me. The reviewers all found the parabellum to work well, however, I think most of them were only testing with lighter optics, such as an aimpoint. Something like that apparently keeps zero well. I have almost no interest in RDSs, and always prefer standard scopes, so it's pretty much going to be a side mount for me. TWS is a clean option though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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