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Over gassed gun fix?


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Hello everyone, so I have a saiga 12 18.5"barrel with the gas block moved back 3.3" with 4 very small ports (don't remember the exact size) . it' runs great all the way down to B&P 7/8 oz 1160fps. On setting one.... Is there a plug that cuts off more gas than the factory plug for more powerful loads? I don't want to beat it to death. Thank you .

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Having moved that gas block back 3.3" may make it very difficult or impossible to shut off enough gas to keep the shotgun from over functioning when shooting max loads. It is a time-temperature-pressure thing.

 

You might consider buying an adjustable gas block-regulator that advertises how much gas is shut off in the various settings. They also make something called "twister pucks" in three (3) different settings.

 

I use the "twisters" My S12 works with cheap WW 2.75 dram bird shot loads using the "low powered shell puck". More gas. Function with the light loads is iffy using the more gas restrictive pucks. The two other pucks are rarely used.

 

Also a four, (4) position gas regulator-block is used. Usually the most gas passing setting is used. I have forgotten which number setting this is. I have also forgotten who made the four way gas regulator. Sorry.

 

It would appear that tuning the Saiga 12 to shoot most anything is very difficult. You can tune for light ever day fun Wally World lite loads like 2.5 to 2.75 drams equivalent ...Or just the heavy loads.

 

One must make a choice. I choose to tune my S12 to shoot the slightly better Federal 2.75 dram equivalent loads and NOT the heavy max hurting heavy 3" 15 pellet 00 buck loads ... which I hardly shoot anyway.

 

My S12 is also way over gassed for the heavy hitters. But ... I do not normally shoot them. I usually only shoot the light cheap, ($cheap$) WW light loads. Out of the 1000 rounds total, only maybe 25 were very heavy. Ouch!

 

Your choice. I can mow down Zombies using max 3" buckshot or the hyper speed European slug loads, but doing so will not be doing my S12 or my shoulder any good. I tuned for the light stuff. Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot)

 

Relocating the gas block 3.3" may have killed your S12 from ever using very light loads. You can probably still use heavy loads if your bean down that gas. You might also be able to tune for middle weight loads ... but not light.

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The Tac 47 Auto plug is the best gas metering device. The spring loaded poppet relieves pressure to prevent over gassing but still allows the gun to function with a variety of loads without having to change the setting.

 

High power loads create more pressure, auto plug vents the excess. On lighter loads, no pressure to bleed off, auto plug still works as it should.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi folks, it's been awhile since I've placed a post. I installed a TAC 47 auto plug in my converted S12. I adjusted it according to the instructions and it worked perfect with low brass for the first 75 rounds but Then went back to FTE. Thought it was just dirty so I cleaned it and went back out. This time low brass was FTE every shot, tried adjusting but no luck. Hi Brass works fine. Any ideas?

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The adjustment screw is probably backing out on on you.  Go out again and tune it until it feeds perfectly again.
Then use a sharpie paint pen or nail polish to mark the adjustment screw and the body.  Fire a bunch of rounds and see if the two marks still line up.

 

The two I have will start backing out immediately and fifty rounds is enough to back it out 3/4 of a full turn.   I contacted Keith at TAC47 (very friendly and helpful) and he suggested blue loctite.  I tried that but it kept backing out so I used red loctite at his suggestion.   So far I only have about 200 rounds through the one with red loctite but it's holding steady.

 

I've read that some guys don't have this problem at all and don't even use blue loctite, but that's totally different from my own experience.

 

Edit: I just reread your post and noticed that you said you already tried adjusting it but felt that the info was still relevant enough to leave up.

Edited by SGL
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Thanks for the reply but the problem is that it quit working period. Adjusting does not seem to make any difference on low brass. FTE every round. It worked great at first. Hi brass has always worked in this gun but not low. I thought I finally had it fixed but was bummed when it quit working. Is there anything else I should add like a different puck? I,m almost ready to sell this despite the awsomeness it has when it works properly.

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How exactly is the gun Failing TE, what is it doing, stove piping, complete extraction failure etc. etc.?

What parts do you have on the gun?

What other work have you done to it or had done to it?

What magazines are you using?

Since you moved the gas block back, what size and how many ports did you drill?

Can you pull the auto plug out and get a close up picture of the inside of the gas block?

 

Details man.... details, be specific. Huge lack of information in this thread.

Edited by Mullet Man
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Thanks, yeah I was thinking about the auto plug but didn't know how much gas it would bleed off.

 

Exactly as much as is needed. That's the point and the beauty.

 

Then do this mod to it: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/album/1219-tac47-autoplug-gf-magnum-edition-mark-15/ 

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Thanks for the reply but the problem is that it quit working period. Adjusting does not seem to make any difference on low brass. FTE every round. It worked great at first. Hi brass has always worked in this gun but not low. I thought I finally had it fixed but was bummed when it quit working. Is there anything else I should add like a different puck? I,m almost ready to sell this despite the awsomeness it has when it works properly.

 

The Poppet Spring broke in, and now you can't get enough spring pressure for the poppet to stay closed at the same setting. So you need to screw the adjustment in further.  I think some people either get some that don't seal well due to machining flaws, or just have a weaker spring. There are a few people out there who just never can get it to run with the screw all the way in, in a gun that ran on setting #2 of the stock plug.

 

And/or gun was marginally undergassed in the first place. If it runs 100% flawlessly with the same ammo on setting #2 of the stock plug, then this is not the case.

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If yours runs the magnums without adding a second divot, no need for the mod to increase flow (aka a 0.5 notch). However adding the soft detente indexing notch is still a bonus.

 

I've found that Winchester magnums are hotter than Remington, and would run (weakly) on mine with no relief. Rem 3" 15 pellet OOB needed a touch more gas to run reliably.  Now that notch will run all 3" stuff I shoot without issue. S&B tends to be a little weaker than Remington, but I haven't had any of that to test with since I did this modification. If I ever come across something that is 3" and won't run on that notch, I will assume it is really 2 3/4" mag pressure levels and will just run it on auto.

 

I've gotten an autoplug in trade for my other gun, and plan to do a video of this mod for that one. It might be a while, though.

Edited by GunFun
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Gun fun, thanks for the link, that's a good idea! . I got my auto plug and it works well. I can still run the 7/8 oz B&P loads with it. The federal bulk will run with the screw loosened 3 turns from what runs the B&P loads with noticeable less recoil than at the b&p setting. So I kinda view it as a adjustable gas block. I'll leave it at the federal setting for general use and if I want to shoot the b&p I'll tighten it 3 turns.

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