icarus 3 Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 (edited) I just wasn't content with the bakalite mags and have dozens of AR mags so I figured WTF. This is not for the faint of heart; my Saiga will never again take AK mags. I had to widen the mag well quite a bit. The lugs (or whatever they are called) that the 74/saiga mags but up against had to have a lot of material removed. The rear of the trunion where the front of the mag sits had to be widenned also. A feed ramp is needed, the one in the pic was held in place with locktite. I'll drill and tap it when I have more time. The locktite held for about two mags and then the feedramp came lose. Aside from losing my feed ramp it functioned perfectly!! The Galil adapter also needed some fitting. In the pic you can see where I had to remove some material. Edited February 6, 2006 by icarus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 I'd say it needs a NICE coat of black paint... and it will look like it was made that way!!! Very nice indeed!!!! Looks like something BRG3's would have tinkerings with.... :up: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I've had a different idea for a S-223 conversion to AR mags, but this interests me a bit. Mind showing a closeup of the underside of the trunion showing how you had to mod it? I generally lean far away from modding a trunion, but certainly understand that there are right and wrong ways to do it. Wondering also how far the mag sits from the rails. What I ran into was the trunion and receiver post. What I concluded was that it would need a similar adaptor conversion to what I did for G3 mags in an S-308, but for different reasons, and without some of the challenges of the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) I've had a different idea for a S-223 conversion to AR mags, but this interests me a bit. Mind showing a closeup of the underside of the trunion showing how you had to mod it? I generally lean far away from modding a trunion, but certainly understand that there are right and wrong ways to do it. Wondering also how far the mag sits from the rails. The mag sits pretty close to the rails, about the same as a factory mag. That was what I was aiming for. Any lower and the bolt will not strip the round reliably. As well as installing a feedramp (3/4 inch pipe) I ground one in the front of the chamber. Edited February 7, 2006 by icarus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Thanks very much for those detailed pictures! They pretty much answer all my questions, all I'd need to do is compare to my S-223. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 very interesting. I've been thinking of something along those lines. I just got a cnc mill, and some scrap plastic, I'll probably try to make one of those adapters out of plastic. maybe even try to incorperate the bullet guide into the adaptor. I'm not to eager to mod the trunion so heavily, as I want it to still take factory mags. Which means the ar15 mags will need trimmed in front. but I'd be happy with that. Good job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 well, I got a 223 saiga finaly. So I'm looking at it... and those "ears" you grinded on, the starboard one (that's "right") is part of the trunion that holds the bolt lugs. So you have reduced the strength of the action by 15% to 25% Probably not enough to make a difference, but I thought everybody should know. I'm still planning on doing it. I tried one of those 5.45 mag conversions, not very happy with it. 5.45 mags just aren't made for 223 it's a half asses sollution IMHO. and waiting for 223 ak mags... well... they are hard to find, often expensive. AR15 mags are everywhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 where did you get the mag adaptor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 I sold it to him. I'm out, but you can find'em on Gunbroker. Side question: The Saiga and SAR trunions are AK-74 trunions are not wide enough to accomodate the M-16 mag. But I think Arsenal's .223 AK built for Bulgy mags is AK-47 based. Anyone know if its trunion will accomodate M-16 mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted February 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 well, I got a 223 saiga finaly. So I'm looking at it... and those "ears" you grinded on, the starboard one (that's "right") is part of the trunion that holds the bolt lugs. So you have reduced the strength of the action by 15% to 25% Probably not enough to make a difference, but I thought everybody should know. I'm still planning on doing it. I tried one of those 5.45 mag conversions, not very happy with it. 5.45 mags just aren't made for 223 it's a half asses sollution IMHO. and waiting for 223 ak mags... well... they are hard to find, often expensive. AR15 mags are everywhere. I thought about that before I cut into them. The area that was cut was pretty far below where the lugs lock into the bolt. It looks like the only reason they extend down that far is to provide a stop for the mags, on 7.62 AKs the lugs are much shorter. I sold it to him. I'm out, but you can find'em on Gunbroker. Side question: The Saiga and SAR trunions are AK-74 trunions are not wide enough to accomodate the M-16 mag. But I think Arsenal's .223 AK built for Bulgy mags is AK-47 based. Anyone know if its trunion will accomodate M-16 mags? I don't know about Arsenal AKs but I have seen a SAR3 with a Galil adapter in it. Oh and thanks for the adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 have you tried a bata-C yet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted March 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 have you tried a bata-C yet No..... I don't have one and I'm not about to spend $250 for a drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 thats cool I did some digging and found out it works in the galil so it would work in your conversion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted March 6, 2006 Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Do you have any new pics or a stats update (how is it working so far) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 Do you have any new pics or a stats update (how is it working so far) Yeah.... I went to the range Sunday and put about six mags through it. I had a couple of jams. The bolt was not engaging the the rounds on the right side of the stack (about one per mag). I need to remove a little more material so that the mag will fit a little higher in the weapon, maybe an 1/16 inch or so. I should have some more time to work on it next weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Thank you for breaking new ground I just contacted a gunsmith to have simular work done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted March 12, 2006 Report Share Posted March 12, 2006 I sold it to him. I'm out, but you can find'em on Gunbroker. Side question: The Saiga and SAR trunions are AK-74 trunions are not wide enough to accomodate the M-16 mag. But I think Arsenal's .223 AK built for Bulgy mags is AK-47 based. Anyone know if its trunion will accomodate M-16 mags? Hmmmm. . .I use Bulgy Polyamides, EG steel & bakelite, Russian& Polish Polyamides and Romanian steel 5.45 mags in my Saiga .223 with no problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) Why do all the grinding and cutting. I only added the 3/4" pipe feed ramp and installed a 50 round mag in my 223. By dumb luck, I stumbled onto the mags. they only cost $29.99 each. I don't know the pic limit size, or I would post the picture my gun I downsized the the pic Edited March 15, 2006 by termite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
santanatwo 1 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I got my conversion done. Ran a few clips through it, works great. I milled and dremmeled the ears a bit, so the ar15 mag will fit up in there high enough. added a feed ramp, and cnc'd a plastic mag block to hold the ar mag in place (based onthe galil adapter) IT took quite a bit of experimenting to get the feed ramp perfect. I have a lot better understanding of feed geometry now. Didn't need to cut on the breach any. I'm prety happy with it. a 223 ak that takes ar mags... brilliant! thanks for the inspiration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Hmmmm. . .I use Bulgy Polyamides, EG steel & bakelite, Russian& Polish Polyamides and Romanian steel 5.45 mags in my Saiga .223 with no problems. What I was trying to get at with my question was whether or not an M16 mag would fit into the Arsenal magaine well/trunion area without modifications to either. Termite...are those Galil mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEFOZ 1 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 I got my conversion done. Ran a few clips through it, works great. I milled and dremmeled the ears a bit, so the ar15 mag will fit up in there high enough. added a feed ramp, and cnc'd a plastic mag block to hold the ar mag in place (based onthe galil adapter) IT took quite a bit of experimenting to get the feed ramp perfect. I have a lot better understanding of feed geometry now. Didn't need to cut on the breach any. PICS ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 The mags are Galil, gettem at CDNN for $29.95. No mods done to them. Only the feed ramp added to the gun. Shot 44 rounds last night off the front pourch to shut up a "thumper" across the street, about 150 yards away. Not one single jam. I bought the 35 round plastic mag also, but it requires grinding to fit, the 50 rounders fit like a charm. I have 3 loaded and ready to go. For my feed ramp I used 3000 psi pipe, bolted it in, then polished it down until the bolt just cleared and put 2 small "notches" to help. Kind of like the feed ramps that K-Var sells. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
icarus 3 Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 I got my conversion done. Ran a few clips through it, works great. I milled and dremmeled the ears a bit, so the ar15 mag will fit up in there high enough. added a feed ramp, and cnc'd a plastic mag block to hold the ar mag in place (based onthe galil adapter) IT took quite a bit of experimenting to get the feed ramp perfect. I have a lot better understanding of feed geometry now. Didn't need to cut on the breach any. I'm prety happy with it. a 223 ak that takes ar mags... brilliant! thanks for the inspiration. SWEET!! Could you post some pics? Did you mod the adapter much? I thought about cutting on the mags but wanted to be able to use unmodded mags. I've been pretty busy with work so I haven't had time to work on it, but I'm hoping to finish up this weekend. Glad to see some else taking the plunge! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrapathy2000 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I have been slowly working on a adaption to ar15 mags. I dont plan on cutting the trunion as much as you did. just enough to bring the front of the ar15 mag up to feed right. the width is perfect for ar15 alone in the front if I were you I would have cut the adapter not the trunion. working on making a permament adapter though thats fixed into position. taking a while with cad and cnc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Termite those are magazines, not "clips". May I suggest you start a new thread on your 50 rd galil mags with closeup pics showing the ramp you added? I have some of those steel 35s and they don't work in mine with the K Var feedramp. Maybe yours is thicker? Also the steel mags have some side to side wobble and need shimming to fit tight like my Bulgarian mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termite 463 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Cobra, I stand corrected about the wording. The K Var feed ramp will not work with a lot of work, it ain't worth the effort, because after an hour of milling, grinding, and fitting, I just said ---- it. The 50 rounders do have a little bit of side to side. I tried useing strapping material to get a rough idea of what is needed, but gave up. The clips shoot just fine as they are, because I don't plan on running thru the woods chasing the thugs around here. The message has already been put out, DON'T COME ON MY LAND WITH YOUR DRUGS and steal our stuff, you will be shot. I'll think about the new post of pictures of the feed ramp, it ain't pretty but works. I had problems with the notched one, at times a jam, I got pissed and made another at work, while the boss (aka WIFE) was not watching. Have also noticed that FMJ seem to feed better than soft tip, depending on make of bullet. The ronds I popped off where Wolf, and worked great. Termite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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