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RAS-12 AR12 Shotgun Upper Kit with 18.5" Barrel and 5 rd Pmag

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We met with the manufacturers of the RAS-12 at Shot Show 2013 and put in a pretty big order, but between the time we met with them and they started shipping they went exclusive with one big US wholesale distributor. We split our order between short barrels and the 18.5" barrel kits. They are on closeout, so we are trying them out. 

 

Does anyone own one? If so, are you reloading your shotgun shells? If so, where are you getting your projectiles? What happens if you try to run regular shotgun shells through it? 

 

Anyone made or tried a short barrel model? We don't see that the ever made any, but the engineer that we met with from the company said it would be easy to accomplish. 

 

The RAS-12 is the only 12 gauge system available for the AR10 platform. The system provides the rapid ability to change from a rifle to a shotgun and makes the AR10 a true modern sporting shotgun. In order to change out, you punch the pins on a DPMS AR10 and quickly change the upper. You use the same magazines Magpul magazines and all other standard DPMS lower parts.post-5490-0-19226900-1417184767.jpg

 

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/intrepid-ras12-shotgun-ar10-upper-kit-185-5-round-magazine-p-3802.html

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I knew when that debuted it was doomed.

 

Very few are going to pay $1.00 plus per shot for 12 ga when you can buy normal 12 ga for less than $0.25

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i believe they are out of business..I spoke to one of there reps a few months back and they were suppose to have a close out on all of there old stock and make way for there new  2nd gen version of there ras12 gauge uppers around the first quarter of 2015..according to there spokesperson remington was suppose to adopt the proprietary round so the price of the ammo would go down drastically.. as of today..there website has been shut down and they are not answering there phones.. i called the webmaster and they did not state a reason for shutting down there website.. http://biz127.inmotionhosting.com/unavailable.html

 

If you decide to purchase one..buy it as a collectors item or a relic and stock up on alot of the ammo..you may want to consider shooting this gun maybe once a year just to conserve on ammo since it will no longer be available.. here is there facebook page

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Intrepid-Tactical-Solutions/1421363338082816

Edited by voonman
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When MAA sent me an Email yesterday with a very tempting price on these it got me thinking about it. It would snap right onto my LR 308 lower. Love the concept.

 

Went online looking for ammo info and came up with one supplier willing to part with shells for it near $1.00 a,pop. All others over $2.00 each and nothing but 00 buck.

 

I couldn't find reloading components or data for those shells. What primers do they use? Who sells wads and nose cones for it.

 

I would prolly get one if not for the ammo issues.

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Make a shotgun AR upper. Awesome!

 

Make it not work with normal shotgun shells. Fail!

 

What's that you say? The company is out of business? Must be a coincidence.

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I don't know. To be honest, a 12 gauge that shares uppers with a 308 is exciting to me. Especially in in a format I feel is comfortable. Dollar a round? In an early concept format, that doesn't t bother me. I'm not plinking with it. I'm just hoping from support in the ammo section. Been doing some reasearch, hard to find ammo. Not good

 

Not for everyone, I get that. But I'm far more interested in this this then then some boomerang shaped handgun that should go back to the drawing board before production

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Traditional 12g slugs are about $1 around.

If there was ammunition support, this would push me into the AR game.

Edited by Mullet Man

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The concept of a 12gag upper for my 308 is awesome, but not for some proprietary round, standard shot shells and away we go.

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i love the concept... picked up another off gunbroker with lower and ammo... psycccched!!

 

i need a full bore slug to replace the nose cap, will look like a giant bullet.... tiiiiiiiiits!!

 

http://haveblue.org/?p=1936&cpage=1#comment-1416038


heres a vid of me shootin the upper with a cutdown 50 bmg...

 

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Well, you finally got me to create an account here. Been lurking for years but never needed one since all my questions about the Saiga 12 were answered. Now this here RAS12...thats another story. I checked out that link for haveblue up above and I know there is a facebook group for the RAS12. But I dont have a FB account and refuse to make one.

I am (un)forturnate enough to have one of these uppers I picked up for $150. And I was at least lucky enough to score 350 of those black unicorn horns they call ammo for it too.

My main interest is reloading these shells. My first thought was to use a round nose slug on the factory shell to eliminate the need for a nose cone and it looks like you've accomplished that with the 50bmg brass load. And I do have a couple questions. 

Would you mind sharing any of the load data you have for what you have tried already? 

Have you tried using a slug as a nosecone on the factory shell hull?

Have you heard anything about replacement nosecones?

 

 

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hahah i knew someone would be interested eventually!!

 

somewhere someone posted 32gr of mystery powder, i think?  dont know where i got that info.

ive been using 28-30gr of 4756...

 

i havent tried launching those nosecone cloned slugs yet.  the slug in the picture weighs 2oz or so.

 

the facebook group sucks.  not any good discussions in there.  somone posted pics of modding a mag to run with a spacer in the back to delete the nosecone....

i plan to mod a lee slug mold to have lands that will ride in the full bore, and somehow make it a slight hollow point... maybe just with a drill press as some on here or somewhere else may have suggested

 

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mike bush is the original engineer on these.  i thik he is at "vuduu tactical " or something in idaho/utah etc. 

i dont know how much he can say based on the patents on it or something?  i was emailin him or a while, dont reemeber what all info i got out of him.  will look back over them

 

as far as nose cones, the are 18 or 18.5mm model rocket cones, but i dont know where from. (china) im sure they could be bought in bulk, if we could talk to the right person.  3d printing them would prob be an option as well.  or ive tried makin them outta paper mache.  thats time consuming for sure

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Thanks for the reply. 

Holy crap! A 2oz slug? Thats one heavy girl. I could see definitely using the 50 brass on that one instead of the factory plastic hull for the increased strength.

 I would be a little concerned about chamber pressure trying to get a slug that heavy moving due to the internal volume of the cartridge, but thats just an assumption.

Im not an engineer or physicist.

In regards to the nosecones; I do have free access to thermoforming machines and have thought about vac-forming them. I would need to create a mold to form them on  and I am not a tool and die guy so any expense for the mold and material would be coming out of my pocket. 

I have recently seen a few vac-form molds that were 3d printed for low volume part production so I was thinking that a printed mold that could produce maybe 50-100 nosecones in one shot from one sheet of plastic on the machine would be the most worthwhile trial if going the vac-form route.

I just dont have the extra funds to have someone make a mold and to buy materials to test this. Realistically at this point in time I would just be happy finding a current source for the nosecones so that I can reload these close to factory spec.

I havent ventured into casting bullets, shot, or slugs yet so substituting the slug for the nosecone is out the window for me right now unless I can purchase a slug that I can just pop onto the factory hull. 

 

Im just a poor bastard with half baked ideas...lol

 

 

 

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i have a lathe, but like everyone with one of those i am getting ready to move, so finishing landscaping and getting ready to sell is higher on the priority list...

 

i thkn you could do the drop in slug, yoyu just use a regular wad, with the lee mold anyways...  i will try and screen cap some of the facebook mag mod things that run with no nose cone later

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Great minds think alike...lol. Using a lee slug and a regular wad was really the route I was thinking just for the simplicity of it. I just need to get off my ass and get some good measurements on the ID of the barrel and the ID of the factory ammo hull/shell (whatever you want to call it) to see if everything will fit properly.

Im still new to reloading for shotgun (been loading pistol for +10yrs) so powder charge weight and/or substituting for different powders was the big unknown for me to start this project. Especially because of all the warnings you always see about loading for shotgun say to never substitute any components for a given load. I understand most of that is because of stack height, payload weight, and powder burn rate. So there must be some ability to substitute components as long as subbed components closely match the original parameters for those items. Not sure though, there is definitely more I need to learn. 

I am hoping that the regular wad with a lee slug would provide enough interference fit in the factory shell so that it can build some pressure behind it. I suppose I need to find someone to sell or donate a few lee slugs to me to start this. Or just bite the bullet and buy a cheap lead pot and a mold. 

The $150 price on the upper was why I bought it! Found it at the local gun show. The same guy had another RAS12 upper, 2 unopened cases and 1 open case of ammo. Out the door with one upper and all the ammo for $350 didnt seem too bad to me. 

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barrel is like 730.  or at the high end of .72x"  ive been wittling at my bold little by little and mold one and see if it drops down easy.  i would like to see if we could rifle one of these barrels.  or, maybe just convert to 12 ga or something...

 

as far as loadings go, the components they used past the gunpowder are pretty forgiving.  the nitro card and the squishy plastic disc thing (name eludes me, kids frazzled my brain/interfere with garage  time) are forgiving.

 

i think the hull and base wad of the hull is the most critical part, or the part thats gonna get you into trouble.  the BMG brass would prob take the 2" slug, but i dont wanna waste MY shoulder on it, haha.... gonna lighten that one, btw, no way im shootin over 1-1/2 oz without a fixture etchahahha

i would suggest teh cast-boolits forum, they have some folks doing fun stuff with shotguns/slugs etc...  good group of guys too.... helpful not like facebook/ar15.com where mostly folks justabuncha snarky poo flinging gremlins, hahah

Edited by saltydecimator

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Thinking about this...The gas check (squishy plastic disk thingy...lol) would be replaced with the standard shotgun wad which would also contain/seal the powder in the bottom of the shell. And from what I am reading a nitro card is used under the lee slug to prevent the wad from being forced into the open holes on the bottom of the slug. 

So Im thinking that keeping the weight of the payload close to the same weight of the factory shell payload by adding up the total weight of the wad+nitro card+slug would be critical. From that point its a question of stack height. I guess stack height wouldnt be as critical compared to loading standard shotshells because there is no crimp folding the end of the shell closed in this scenario, so we arent really limited in the final OAL of the round. The only limiting factor seems to be fitting the completed rounds in the magazine and seeing if they feed properly.  And its not like we are gonna have to worry about the slug getting jammed into the rifling during chambering since there is no rifling! Ha!

Funny you mention castboolits. One of the guys on another local forum Im on sent me that way yesterday. I joined up but until I have a good list of hard data for them to peek at I may not start asking the important questions. I have been able to search and find answers to almost every question I had so far. Plus I gotta get enough posts before I can start begging for slugs to test.

And F*** ar15.com it always seems like a bunch of basement dwellers either hugging or bashing the nuts of whoever or whatever is tacticool each month.  Sure, there are some good people and info but the ratio of good info to bulls**t is not too great IMO.

 

Edited by skrapyard628
forgot about oal for magazine

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so normal wads are kinda weird, if i remember right, as they dont completely seal, thats the reason for hte gas check.  or it doesnt seal  the top of he powder completely.  i wanna say hte nitro card is actually an 11ga (available at BPI etc). that maybe the reason for the 730 bore, to have no obstructions...?

 

sorry for not addressing everything, watching kids etc limited time to look away

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