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Need Help - Zero my saiga .308


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Picked up a .308 for a reasonable price.  Converted it and scoped it!  Problem with the scope is I cant get the scope to zero.  When i installed  the scope. i put a "laser bullet" down the chamber to see where i would hit.  Im not even close to getting the laser on paper.  My scope is 1/8 click at 100yrds.  I raised the scope all the way up and I'am still way low. Can anyone help me out?

 

Thanks

 

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The dog leg is plenty strong for normal use.. Not everyone drops their firearms partially disassembled onto rocks on a daily basis.

 

Another option is shimming the bottom side of one of the scope rings, it was common practice up until recently to shim a scope ring to compensate for something being too far to adjust.

 

Normally strips from a cheap feeler gauge are used for the shim stock as they numbered and come in an assortment for about $3

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html

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The dog leg is plenty strong for normal use.. Not everyone drops their firearms partially disassembled onto rocks on a daily basis.

 

Another option is shimming the bottom side of one of the scope rings, it was common practice up until recently to shim a scope ring to compensate for something being too far to adjust.

 

Normally strips from a cheap feeler gauge are used for the shim stock as they numbered and come in an assortment for about $3

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html

Yep, I used cig pack plastic, 3 layers worked well.

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I agree with the following...

the mount is way too high

no wonder you ran out of adjustment ( how much adjustment from centered is there?)

shimming the front ring can compensate

laser boresighters are hit & miss on quality & accuracy

 

 

A properly mounted scope, rings mounted properly, eye relief, focus, as near to perfectly vertical as possible, center lined, fasteners evenly & properly torqued.

Recenter the reticle, PITA... Take it all the way on way, count every click to the other end & come back to the middle.

 

A low profile, center line rail system is needed, and even then you will likely benefit from a cheek riser.

Beryl type mounts are my preferred for the AK platform, various makes/models/

Krebs if you've the $$$, TWS Generation 1 or 2 $$ or something like a DPH beryl rail $.

 

On the bench, securely set in some sort of shooting rest, a clean 25 yard bore sighting on the target using the Mk1 eyeball.

Center the scope on the target & proceed with normal sight in.

I've never been more than a couple inches of bullseye this way on the first group of three.

 

My S.308-ver.21

Vortex Viper 2-7x32 in Burris Tactical 1" .75" high rings, on a TWS Gen1 Dogleg Rail.

I still need a high riser to get a really solid 'Cheek' weld, at least 2.5" high.

vortex2.jpg

vortex1-1.jpg

vortex3.jpg

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The MI AK rail seems to have very good reviews. It is rugged, light, and sits very low to the receiver. I ended up returning the one I bought for my S-12, because I could not get a QD mount or PA red dot to mount securely to the top rail. Every one bottomed out before tightening. MI refused to replace the rail with another, stating that it was an issue with the mounts and red dots, so I just returned it for a refund.

 

That was just my anecdotal experience. YMMV. It seems many have been happy with them.

 

I have switched over to the UTG Pro mounts on a couple of my AKs and like them very much. They are well built, hold zero, are light, and sit pretty low. The side picatinny rail is detachable, and the top rail has a deep V notch in the center that still allows use of your iron sights. IMHO they are a tremendous valve for around $50. May be an option for you:

 

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I have used the utg mounts on both my 7.62x39 and 308 saigas, the utg mount couldnt take the recoil of the 308 and would lose zero. Both saigas now wear m.i mounts and hold up wonderfully. Be sure to adjust the tension on the lock mech of the side rail so it holds really well and you shouldnt have a problem. Heres a pic of my s308 with the m.i. mount, mid height rings, and a vortex viper pst 2.5-10. It sits so low i had to dremel a channel out on the front flip up scope cap to keep it from hitting the rear sight block! Thats as low as i could get it hahaha!

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I have used the utg mounts on both my 7.62x39 and 308 saigas, the utg mount couldnt take the recoil of the 308 and would lose zero. Both saigas now wear m.i mounts and hold up wonderfully. Be sure to adjust the tension on the lock mech of the side rail so it holds really well and you shouldnt have a problem. Heres a pic of my s308 with the m.i. mount, mid height rings, and a vortex viper pst 2.5-10. It sits so low i had to dremel a channel out on the front flip up scope cap to keep it from hitting the rear sight block! Thats as low as i could get it hahaha!

Just out of curiosity LuPiN8oR, were they the old UTG mounts or the newer UTG Pro mounts? The design has changed, and they are much sturdier now. I haven't had issues with mine holding up to recoil on my S12 with slugs, and I would put that in the same recoil department as the .308. Overall I have been impressed with most of the "PRO" line from UTG. Quality is much better than it used to be just a couple of years ago.

 

ETA...Here is mine on the S12 with the top Picatinny cut down for Red dot use only:

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Edited by Spacehog
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My 308 had to much flex from the rail to recever. In my opinion the side rail isn't tough enough for 308 recoil. It wasn't a problem with the mount but the side rail wasn't rigid enough.

Edited by deadeye
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  • 1 month later...

I have the same problem of being able to push on a rail mount and get it to flex. This problem appears on all 6 of my AK variants in various calibers.

 

Once a scope is sighted in I have no issue holding zero while shooting, but when I leave it in my gunsafe and the scope leans up against the wall the next time I shoot it's off by a couple of inches.

 

This was awful when I used two-piece Kalinka optic mounts, it's better with UTG, and I recently bought a Midwest Industries and it still flexes way more than I was hoping it would.

 

I'm considering buying a GG&G and an RS Regulate to see if they are stiffer, but I am concerned that all of them, since they act as a cantilever beam, will never be able to resist flexing.

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I have the same problem of being able to push on a rail mount and get it to flex. This problem appears on all 6 of my AK variants in various calibers.

Once a scope is sighted in I have no issue holding zero while shooting, but when I leave it in my gunsafe and the scope leans up against the wall the next time I shoot it's off by a couple of inches.

This was awful when I used two-piece Kalinka optic mounts, it's better with UTG, and I recently bought a Midwest Industries and it still flexes way more than I was hoping it would.

I'm considering buying a GG&G and an RS Regulate to see if they are stiffer, but I am concerned that all of them, since they act as a cantilever beam, will never be able to resist flexing.

try the tws rail or something similar. My 308 has the dph beryl style qd rail. I don't think they make them any more.
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Kind of like this set up.  What kind of optic is this?  Is this a "PSO" or  a "POSP" scope?

 

Saiga308.jpg

Can't beat the POSP scope for AK type rifles.

 

Well got a POSP!  LOVE  it!  However due do my bad eyesight and no focus I have to shoot lefty since my eyes have two different perceptions.  As much as I love i think i may put the POSP om y .223 and do something else.

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So, I ended up buying a dph arms beryl style rail.

 

It DID need some custom fitting in order to make the rear of the mount fit flat into the rear tang.

 

Be prepared to spend a looooooong time with a file to get it to fit.

 

That being said, it's the most rigid scope mount I have tried so far. Doing my final accuracy and repeatability test on Friday.

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So, I ended up buying a dph arms beryl style rail.

It DID need some custom fitting in order to make the rear of the mount fit flat into the rear tang.

Be prepared to spend a looooooong time with a file to get it to fit.

That being said, it's the most rigid scope mount I have tried so far. Doing my final accuracy and repeatability test on Friday.

I forgot about the filing to fit the tang it's been a while since I mounted mine. It's held zero for a long time now never been moved in several years.
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You are going to have to remove, exactly center and remount your factory receiver side rail. This is easy to do and is actually quite fun. PEM me if you want to. I will talk you through it in detail, but I am sure you can figure it out. HB of CJ (old coot)

 

For certain values of easy, I guess.  I did this once on a x39 AK build...  Drilled out the rivets, removed the rail, welded up two of the rivet holes, and ground the welds smooth.  Then stuck the rail back on and riveted through the remaining hole, realigned to match the barrel, clamped, drilled the other two holes and re-riveted.  Piece of cake, am I right?  021.gif

 

On the Saiga, the rear rivet hole for the rail also goes through the rear trunnion, and access for bucking that rivet inside the receiver is kind of problematic.  On my .308 I just removed the rail entirely, and filled the holes with rivets (rather than welding).  That way in case I ever want to put it back on, I can drill them out, and then rivet the rail back on.  Yeah right.  I'm happy with the TWS rail, and glad to shed the factory snag rail, along with a very small amount of weight.

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/agree

 

The TWS avoids so many possible issues with a side rail not to mention the sight radius on the 21" 308 with the aperture option rivals the Garand.

Side rails still work fine for closer ranges if installed correctly enough and a red dot. 

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