vlarg 0 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Picked up a .308 for a reasonable price. Converted it and scoped it! Problem with the scope is I cant get the scope to zero. When i installed the scope. i put a "laser bullet" down the chamber to see where i would hit. Im not even close to getting the laser on paper. My scope is 1/8 click at 100yrds. I raised the scope all the way up and I'am still way low. Can anyone help me out? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I never had much luck with a side mount on the 308. I went with a beryl style rail. Your scope looks very high up. How close is the laser to where you are while trying to sight in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 With a mount that high im not surprised you ran out of vertical adjustment. I'd get a lower sitting side mount. And for what its worth ive never had luck with laser boresighters, they really dont get you all that close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sand 2 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 The side mount didn't work for me either, I would go with something like this http://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/product_p/tws-mount.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boyd Crowder 16 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I would stay away from the dog leg, Id go with the RS Regulate modular side rail system, very light weight, strong, low profile and customizable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 The dog leg is plenty strong for normal use.. Not everyone drops their firearms partially disassembled onto rocks on a daily basis. Another option is shimming the bottom side of one of the scope rings, it was common practice up until recently to shim a scope ring to compensate for something being too far to adjust. Normally strips from a cheap feeler gauge are used for the shim stock as they numbered and come in an assortment for about $3 http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 The dog leg is plenty strong for normal use.. Not everyone drops their firearms partially disassembled onto rocks on a daily basis. Another option is shimming the bottom side of one of the scope rings, it was common practice up until recently to shim a scope ring to compensate for something being too far to adjust. Normally strips from a cheap feeler gauge are used for the shim stock as they numbered and come in an assortment for about $3 http://www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metric-feeler-gauge-32214.html Yep, I used cig pack plastic, 3 layers worked well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I agree with the following... the mount is way too high no wonder you ran out of adjustment ( how much adjustment from centered is there?) shimming the front ring can compensate laser boresighters are hit & miss on quality & accuracy A properly mounted scope, rings mounted properly, eye relief, focus, as near to perfectly vertical as possible, center lined, fasteners evenly & properly torqued. Recenter the reticle, PITA... Take it all the way on way, count every click to the other end & come back to the middle. A low profile, center line rail system is needed, and even then you will likely benefit from a cheek riser. Beryl type mounts are my preferred for the AK platform, various makes/models/ Krebs if you've the $$$, TWS Generation 1 or 2 $$ or something like a DPH beryl rail $. On the bench, securely set in some sort of shooting rest, a clean 25 yard bore sighting on the target using the Mk1 eyeball. Center the scope on the target & proceed with normal sight in. I've never been more than a couple inches of bullseye this way on the first group of three. My S.308-ver.21 Vortex Viper 2-7x32 in Burris Tactical 1" .75" high rings, on a TWS Gen1 Dogleg Rail. I still need a high riser to get a really solid 'Cheek' weld, at least 2.5" high. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlarg 0 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Thanks all for the help. I was just using the laser sight just to try and get it on paper. What is the opinion of the Midwest Rails? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 The MI AK rail seems to have very good reviews. It is rugged, light, and sits very low to the receiver. I ended up returning the one I bought for my S-12, because I could not get a QD mount or PA red dot to mount securely to the top rail. Every one bottomed out before tightening. MI refused to replace the rail with another, stating that it was an issue with the mounts and red dots, so I just returned it for a refund. That was just my anecdotal experience. YMMV. It seems many have been happy with them. I have switched over to the UTG Pro mounts on a couple of my AKs and like them very much. They are well built, hold zero, are light, and sit pretty low. The side picatinny rail is detachable, and the top rail has a deep V notch in the center that still allows use of your iron sights. IMHO they are a tremendous valve for around $50. May be an option for you: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I have used the utg mounts on both my 7.62x39 and 308 saigas, the utg mount couldnt take the recoil of the 308 and would lose zero. Both saigas now wear m.i mounts and hold up wonderfully. Be sure to adjust the tension on the lock mech of the side rail so it holds really well and you shouldnt have a problem. Heres a pic of my s308 with the m.i. mount, mid height rings, and a vortex viper pst 2.5-10. It sits so low i had to dremel a channel out on the front flip up scope cap to keep it from hitting the rear sight block! Thats as low as i could get it hahaha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I have used the utg mounts on both my 7.62x39 and 308 saigas, the utg mount couldnt take the recoil of the 308 and would lose zero. Both saigas now wear m.i mounts and hold up wonderfully. Be sure to adjust the tension on the lock mech of the side rail so it holds really well and you shouldnt have a problem. Heres a pic of my s308 with the m.i. mount, mid height rings, and a vortex viper pst 2.5-10. It sits so low i had to dremel a channel out on the front flip up scope cap to keep it from hitting the rear sight block! Thats as low as i could get it hahaha!Just out of curiosity LuPiN8oR, were they the old UTG mounts or the newer UTG Pro mounts? The design has changed, and they are much sturdier now. I haven't had issues with mine holding up to recoil on my S12 with slugs, and I would put that in the same recoil department as the .308. Overall I have been impressed with most of the "PRO" line from UTG. Quality is much better than it used to be just a couple of years ago. ETA...Here is mine on the S12 with the top Picatinny cut down for Red dot use only: Edited December 5, 2014 by Spacehog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) My 308 had to much flex from the rail to recever. In my opinion the side rail isn't tough enough for 308 recoil. It wasn't a problem with the mount but the side rail wasn't rigid enough. Edited December 6, 2014 by deadeye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Spacehog, they were the older generation with the non removable side picatinny rail, not the pro version. I like the modification to that rail, and a gorgeous s-12 i may add! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 You are going to have to remove, exactly center and remount your factory receiver side rail. This is easy to do and is actually quite fun. PEM me if you want to. I will talk you through it in detail, but I am sure you can figure it out. HB of CJ (old coot) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlarg 0 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Still considering options. How well do the POSP 6x scopes work? Is it inevitable to remove the side rail at this point Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlarg 0 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Kind of like this set up. What kind of optic is this? Is this a "PSO" or a "POSP" scope? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eugene Onegin 6 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Still considering options. How well do the POSP 6x scopes work? Is it inevitable to remove the side rail at this point They work fine for me ,6x24 POSP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I have the same problem of being able to push on a rail mount and get it to flex. This problem appears on all 6 of my AK variants in various calibers. Once a scope is sighted in I have no issue holding zero while shooting, but when I leave it in my gunsafe and the scope leans up against the wall the next time I shoot it's off by a couple of inches. This was awful when I used two-piece Kalinka optic mounts, it's better with UTG, and I recently bought a Midwest Industries and it still flexes way more than I was hoping it would. I'm considering buying a GG&G and an RS Regulate to see if they are stiffer, but I am concerned that all of them, since they act as a cantilever beam, will never be able to resist flexing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I have the same problem of being able to push on a rail mount and get it to flex. This problem appears on all 6 of my AK variants in various calibers. Once a scope is sighted in I have no issue holding zero while shooting, but when I leave it in my gunsafe and the scope leans up against the wall the next time I shoot it's off by a couple of inches. This was awful when I used two-piece Kalinka optic mounts, it's better with UTG, and I recently bought a Midwest Industries and it still flexes way more than I was hoping it would. I'm considering buying a GG&G and an RS Regulate to see if they are stiffer, but I am concerned that all of them, since they act as a cantilever beam, will never be able to resist flexing. try the tws rail or something similar. My 308 has the dph beryl style qd rail. I don't think they make them any more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hey Tx, did you ever tighten that nut on the m.I. rail? It's a pain but it does allow for adjustment and it will get so tight you'll damn near need a hammer and a screwdriver to move the locking lever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eugene Onegin 6 Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Kind of like this set up. What kind of optic is this? Is this a "PSO" or a "POSP" scope? Can't beat the POSP scope for AK type rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vlarg 0 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Kind of like this set up. What kind of optic is this? Is this a "PSO" or a "POSP" scope? Can't beat the POSP scope for AK type rifles. Well got a POSP! LOVE it! However due do my bad eyesight and no focus I have to shoot lefty since my eyes have two different perceptions. As much as I love i think i may put the POSP om y .223 and do something else. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TxAgSaiga1979 16 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 So, I ended up buying a dph arms beryl style rail. It DID need some custom fitting in order to make the rear of the mount fit flat into the rear tang. Be prepared to spend a looooooong time with a file to get it to fit. That being said, it's the most rigid scope mount I have tried so far. Doing my final accuracy and repeatability test on Friday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 So, I ended up buying a dph arms beryl style rail. It DID need some custom fitting in order to make the rear of the mount fit flat into the rear tang. Be prepared to spend a looooooong time with a file to get it to fit. That being said, it's the most rigid scope mount I have tried so far. Doing my final accuracy and repeatability test on Friday. I forgot about the filing to fit the tang it's been a while since I mounted mine. It's held zero for a long time now never been moved in several years. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 You are going to have to remove, exactly center and remount your factory receiver side rail. This is easy to do and is actually quite fun. PEM me if you want to. I will talk you through it in detail, but I am sure you can figure it out. HB of CJ (old coot) For certain values of easy, I guess. I did this once on a x39 AK build... Drilled out the rivets, removed the rail, welded up two of the rivet holes, and ground the welds smooth. Then stuck the rail back on and riveted through the remaining hole, realigned to match the barrel, clamped, drilled the other two holes and re-riveted. Piece of cake, am I right? On the Saiga, the rear rivet hole for the rail also goes through the rear trunnion, and access for bucking that rivet inside the receiver is kind of problematic. On my .308 I just removed the rail entirely, and filled the holes with rivets (rather than welding). That way in case I ever want to put it back on, I can drill them out, and then rivet the rail back on. Yeah right. I'm happy with the TWS rail, and glad to shed the factory snag rail, along with a very small amount of weight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 /agree The TWS avoids so many possible issues with a side rail not to mention the sight radius on the 21" 308 with the aperture option rivals the Garand. Side rails still work fine for closer ranges if installed correctly enough and a red dot. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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