Saiga 12 FTE problems

[Amonshax 0]

New guy here, and much like most other people I have feeding issues with my Saiga 12. I purchased the gun from cheaperthandirt. When I got it it wouldn't cycle anything (high or low brass), I mean... not even once. Every shot was FTE. I returned it to have repairs done, the gunsmith said he polished a couple things down and opened up the gas ports and when I received it from him it shot almost flawlessly. After that, I did the conversion, moving the trigger assembly and putting several new parts on it including trigger assembly (minus springs), adjustable stock, new forend, doorbreak, angled grip. After that, it would no longer cycle again, FTE on every shot. I polished down the hammer and a couple other things, cleaned out the gas tube, made sure the gas ports were clear (there are 4 of them, not sure of the size right now), made sure everything was lubed. Still FTE on every shot. (I have not tried high brass since the conversion, just trying to get low brass to cycle) Ive come to the conclusion that Im not getting enough gas to cycle it. My FTEs will either flip up on its side and jam, or the spent shell will go straight back into the chamber, not resetting the hammer. Personally at this point I would think opening up the gas ports more would be the way to go, Im just at a loss as to why I would be having this problem again after doing the conversion because I don't think anything I changed would have messed with it, so I thought Id get some other opinions. Thanks in advance!

[MLM0358 107]

Amonshax:  Welcome to the forum and I was exactly where you are a few years ago and you've come to the right place for answers.   I would NOT recommend opening up gas ports any further until you have established the root problem.   First thing I would do is be absolutely 100% sure that my gas plug is set on the highest gas setting.   Get one of the improved versions of adjustable gas plugs if you don't already have one.   If you haven't already done it,   buy one the low brass reliability kits CSS.  This has a lower power recoil spring that will help. My guess is that the root problem is your hammer.  This is one thing that you changed that will effect the cycling and cause FTEs.   There is a lot of friction on the bolt carrier when it rides over an improperly profiled hammer.   "Polishing" the hammer may not be enough.  I machine (you also can grind or file)   the hammer so that it just barely clears the disconnector when the bolt rides over it to allow proper function of the trigger and reset.   I'm 99% sure there are some threads on this forum about that.

[Deadeye 325]

I'm betting your hammer needs profiled to match the factory one

[Amonshax 0]

Sorry guys I guess I should've been more specific, I did profile the hammer to better match the factory one, I actually took quite a lot off of it. It's still rubbing the bolt carrier, but not a lot, and a hell of a lot better than what it was. But I was under the impression that there should be a little friction there, is that true? Or should the bolt go right over it without rubbing? Id almost be afraid to take much more off, its getting pretty thin.

 

On the gas plug, it is on the right setting (2). I have read about changing the plug and the piston (puck, tappet, whatever you want to call it), but from what I read it wouldn't actually be a fix if your gun wont cycle, just improved reliability on one that's already working.

[MLM0358 107]

The bolt must depress the hammer for the gun to operate. The primary determining factor on the hammer  is that it needs to be depressed far enough to allow the disconnector to engage -- but not be depressed any more than necessary.  A factory gun, or stock Tapco G2 trigger has way more hammer depression than is actually needed.   It's a good learning experience to see how the  bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, sear and disconnector all work together.  Definitely don't try anything else on your hammer until you really understand it.

 

Since the trigger assembly is the only thing that changed that involved the actual operation of the gun, I'd still focus on the hammer as the culprit.

It  should run on setting 2, especially if ti did before.

[sccritterkiller 473]

Put as many of the old parts back in/on as you can with the conversion, see it it runs. If it does put your new parts back on one at a time and test after each one is added. Sometimes with these guns if you change out too many parts at one time it can cause issues. What kind of forend did you add? . I would also determine your current port size. They may need opened up more but no of knowing until you know what size they they currently.

Edited December 8, 2014 by sccritterkiller

[Amonshax 0]

This is the forend on it. If I remember right I believe I ordered this from Mississippi Auto Arms. The hole on the side of the gas block is not covered, its actually a lot more open now than it was with the stock forend on it. It also does not touch the sides of the gas block, the only two points of contact appear to be where the screw goes in and the very beginning area that locks it in place. I will try to put the original pieces on one by one and see what happens, hopefully Ill find time to do that this weekend.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Amonshax

[Amonshax 0]

******UPDATE******

 

 

 

 

So I put the original stock and forearm back on and took off the door breach. Shot 5 rounds through the 5 round mag just fine. Put the door breach on, shot once, ejected, cycled the next round, but failed to depress the hammer. Second shot, ejected, then my bolt hold open spring came out, jamming up everything. I decided to remove the bolt hold open lever, as there is a lot of side to side play in it and I don't want to risk it jamming up again (for now). I managed to unjam it but Ill have to find another day to go back to the range and see if I can figure things out.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Amonshax

[Carsner86 18]

I had a spring come off luckily I had a small hook and put it back on.. Need to notch where the spring rides better...

I wouldn't think the breacher is effecting anything like someone else said prolly fcg

[Amonshax 0]

Carsner86, I would think that the door breach wouldn't effect anything, but since it jammed up I had to call it quits at the range because I didn't have the tools to fix it. So the extent of my troubleshooting was knowing it shot fine (5 shots) without the door breach, and it failed to reset the hammer on one shot with the door breach on, and the second shot it jammed up because of the bolt hold open. Ill have to try again another day.

[lbsrdi 1,078]

As a test, put the factory hammer back in and test the gun.