pedal2alloy 206 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 http://www.blackacestactical.com/#!product/prd3/3250932101/black-aces-tactical-dt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Interesting thing about it is the ATF said that shouldering it WOULD classify it as an SBR.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigChongus 765 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I'd really love to know how that's not an AOW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zaxon_182 44 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I think it's not an AOW because the OAL exceeds 26" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGL 530 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 No forend for you! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Fantastic!This'll create a headache in some states with their own rules/definitions, and definitely get people in some shit with LE who just see a short barrel and assume it's a felony. Here in NE it's 100% good to go, all our laws say is it's good to go if the feds say it is. Though technically inside Omaha city limits it would have to be registered as a handgun based on barrel length alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Looks like someone is trying hard to get rid of that sig brace. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'd love to have one in Bright Ass Yellow.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vance665 225 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 If this is legal, what's stopping someone from building the same thing from an S-12? All you would need is a new virgin reciever with a permanently attached ar pistol buffer tube and sb15 brace. Combine that with a saiga parts gun and you're done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) The question I have is how do you rack the slide to chamber a round? I do believe also that the ATF stated in their response letter that shouldering this on a shotgun would classify it as an SBS and it would be illegal. Edited December 9, 2014 by AZ-DAVE-IZ109 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Looks like there's a grip afixed to the left side, used to rack it.I read that ATF letter... They're on iffy ground with that, can't see the way you use a firearm holding up in court as changing its classification. Anyway I would rather just have a long, useless extension off the back to make up the OAL, rather than that silly not-a-stock. Only thing that's a shame is because of how an AOW is defined - including that wording about concealment - you couldn't add a folding mechanism without redefining the weapon as an AOW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Really I see this as a foot in the door to get an sbs. No way in hell are your not going to want to shoulder that thing. So but it, submit form 1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Hell yeah, saw that black aces receiver by itself and thought about a pistol grip build aow since it never had a stock attached, I didnt think about how an arm brace would circumvent that as well.....nice shotty...would be nuts if somebody could design a gas system that was loaded into the empty magaine tube.....or would it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Supposedly he's working on a semi auto based on the remmy 1100 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 That's a slick idea on his part considering the russians are still working on circumventing the sanctions of their firearms. It would be a development. I am so glad I was able to get a piece of russian steel before, though an American based couterpart would be cool to see. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Holy shit, now that I think about it a little more... This is a way to get around a LOT of import rules - these aren't legally "shotguns," so a short-barreled MKA-1919, or Saiga/VEPR (of they weren't already banned by sanction) would be importable and the "features" rules shouldn't apply. Indeed, the same should apply to other "firearms" with rifled bores - namely just about any carbine, without its buttstock, with either a sig brace or a useless tube hanging off the back end solely for OAL. It wouldn't help with most bullpup designs, but could lead to some great firearms being brought in with their original, proper threaded barrels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 That's a slick idea on his part considering the russians are still working on circumventing the sanctions of their firearms. It would be a development. I am so glad I was able to get a piece of russian steel before, though an American based couterpart would be cool to see.And if nothing more it means we'll still be able to buy saiga12 mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Duhh; Looks like a pistol grip shotgun with a short barrel. AOW. Five buck tax stamp. At least in my humble kinda knowledgeable opinion. All US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. Now somebody will tell it it has a rifled barrel which opens up a big can of worms. Gray area. Now I need to read all the posts. I could not get that site to load. HB of CJ (old coot) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Duhh; Looks like a pistol grip shotgun with a short barrel. AOW. Five buck tax stamp. At least in my humble kinda knowledgeable opinion. All US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. Now somebody will tell it it has a rifled barrel which opens up a big can of worms. Gray area. Now I need to read all the posts. I could not get that site to load. HB of CJ (old coot) It's only $5 to transfer an AOW.. it's still $200 to fabricate one. (removing the tube) so at that point SBS is the way to go. Now my question is is there a minimum length of an SBS? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thank you poolingmyignorance. Good clarification. I was thinking if I bought one. I need to read the other posts and try to pull down that site that for whatever reason will not load ... or at least not quickly. Any way the receiver or bolt could be modified to accept a large charging handle? That might just keep bad stuff off the fore part of the pistol. Grey area for sure and I for one do not know what to make of it. HB of CJ (old coot) Is this testing the august BATFE or is it tickling the rear end of a bad ass jackass and we might get the shit kicked out of us by future bad blanket knee jerk BATFE rulings we don't want? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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