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In 18 pages of this thread I have seen the light..

 

AKs are useless rifles that belong in the trash can. They are not rifles used by professionals. AKs are not used by special forces teams, and only weapons used by special forces teams are useful. They are the rifle of our enemies and are un-American, unpatriotic, and you empathize with terrorists if you own them. A person shooting an AK will never hit the target, and usually just spray the hillside with bullets randomly, regardless of where you're aiming with their terrible useless sights. AKs fail to perform with acceptable combat accuracy, which is typically 1MOA or under. AKs usually fall apart as soon as they're taken out of the crate. They never work right, and they're totally unreliable. It's impossible to operate the safety of an AK. There's no way to mount optics to them other than a flimsy side mount, which in all likelihood will fall off while you're shooting. AK ballistics (did you know, all AKs are 7.62x39) are inferior to 5.56, and if you're going to buy an AK in 5.56 or 5.45, why aren't you just buying an AR instead? All AKs are 40+ years old. All AKs were built by communists. You're a communist and probably on welfare because all you can afford is AKs.

 

After reading all of that, do you still like AKs? If so, it's clear that you aren't a professional, have no real experience using AKs or you haven't been trained enough to see how terrible of a rifle they are. I would like to be a professional so I plan on getting rid of my AKs.

 

I will be dropping all of my AKs off at Goodwill later in the week. I think they'll probably take them. I didn't know they were such terrible rifles, I wouldn't want to charge anyone to take them off of my hands now.

 

read if you dare, but you may end up deciding that you have wasted your time owning AKs

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1696148_.html

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Lol.   I prefer this one. vs.  

AK's... COMBAT proven... Period..   AR's are GREAT for busting paper at 500 yards..   Combat rarely affords the luxury of a 500 yard shot from prone....   Semper Fi

In 18 pages of this thread I have seen the light..   AKs are useless rifles that belong in the trash can. They are not rifles used by professionals. AKs are not used by special forces teams, and onl

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The fact that this was in GD explains a lot. That subforum is an idiot magnet. I recommend looking around in the AK forums there if you want to see sensible discussion about Kalashnikov based weapons.

 

FWIW, this is one of the better GD subforums I have experienced.

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That forum is made up of some of the stupidest fucking people I've seen on forums. Its sad how so many people can get sucked into the narrow mindset of hating AK's.

 

I guess they're just pissed that AK's are still the #1 rifle in the world, and for a reason.

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Yeah,  Was lurking that thread also, got some fucked up ppl over on their General Discussion Forum/threads. Bunch of untethered kids, all over the map. Do they still use acid these days...???

 

Anyhow, just throw your cheap/unprofessional junk in the Garbage Can, save yourself the trip to goodwill...

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That forum is made up of some of the stupidest fucking people I've seen on forums. Its sad how so many people can get sucked into the narrow mindset of hating AK's.

 

I guess they're just pissed that AK's are still the #1 rifle in the world, and for a reason.

Number one for sure

 

Every third rate dictatorship on earth and all the Nigerians, Somalians and  jihadis swear by them.

 

and here

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I was in the Marines from 81 to 02.  We were brain washed at a young rank that the AK was/is a POS.  What a load.  I have my converted Saiga 7.62 and my semi AR-16A2.   I WOULD TAKE MY SAIGA over my AR ANY FREAK'N DAY.  I like my AR, but, but....I LOVE MY RUSSIAN MISTRESS. 

 

Seriously, if I was planning on shooting over 200 yards and punching holes in paper, OK.  However, I can't see clearly that far now...so what good would it do me?  Ak all the way.

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This story kinda stuck with me, M4 stuff, thought about posting it on the AK Garbage Can Thread

 

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010-07/what-really-happened-wanat

 

According to U.S. Special Operations Command's SOPMOD (special operations peculiar modification) program office, "The current sustained rate of fire for the M4A1 Carbine is 15 rounds per minute and a maximum rate of 90 [rounds] per minute for short periods in an emergency." 18 Firing the M4 carbine at cyclic rates of fire of 90 to 150 rounds per minute, "which is the rate of suppressive fire associated with machine guns" for prolonged periods leads to rapid heating of the barrel and possible failure. 19

Tests conducted by both the Army and by Colt indicate that "exceeding the sustained rate of fire of 15 rounds per minute will result in the weapon ' cooking off' rounds after approximately 170 rounds have been fired." If the maximum rate of fire of 90 rounds per minute "is maintained for about 540 rounds, the barrel softens and gas starts to blow by the bullet, changing the sound and size of the muzzle blast." If the operator continues to fire the weapon, the barrel will begin to droop, and finally, at about 596 rounds, the barrel will burst.

While the current M4 configuration exceeds the Army's requirements for general issue, early in the M4 program, the Special Operations Command requested a heavier barrel profile to accommodate the rapid heating that accompanies special operations forces' (SOF) high firing schedules. The Army denied this request, however, because a heavy barrel would be incompatible with M203 installation and because it did not want to add a SOF-unique repair part to its inventory. 20 In Fiscal Year 2001, Rock Island Arsenal (RIA) "responded to the distinct needs of SOF with the RIA heavy barrel."

The new heavy-profile barrel still allowed for the installation of the M203, but increased the rounds to cook off to 205 rounds, and the round count to barrel burst to 930. While the new heavy profile did not increase the service life of the barrel, it did provide SOF with, per its requirement document, an M4A1 having a limited light machine-gun capability, of a sort, as it requested. 21 It should be noted that the requirement document did not define what this capability meant in the way of sustained fire (in numbers).

In any case, the rationale for such a capability is based on special operations forces' need to break contact with large enemy formations. The method SOFs employ to break contact in such engagements is to lay down an overwhelming burst of fire intended to suppress the enemy long enough for SOFs to slip away. It is for this reason these forces are working to develop a carbine capable of firing two 30-round bursts followed by at least 45 and up to 75 rounds per minute for 440 rounds without damaging the weapon.

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Brainwashing (social conditioning).

 

I can see why it was used to boost the moral of our troops but, it's still lying.

 

Remember how they told our boys that the Japs couldn't see straight, amongst other propaganda.

 

I have'nt fired an M-16 in 20+ years but, I do remember stripping the rifle down into lots of little parts.

 

That kind of BS kept me away from cheap great guns, when I was introducing myself to firearms (anti-gun upbringing).

 

My family is now "pro-gun" and we have lots of cheap realiable guns.

 

I have a (concealed) .45 sitting on the kitchen table right now. My wife calls it my "Bible".

 

(Listening to the radio right now. ABC News can go to hell, for their incomplete reporting.)

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The people who engage in this trivial argument are the exact same shitheads who argue about a Camaro being better than a Mustang, or another argument of the like.

 

The reality?? Non of those arm rest commandos commenting will ever be close to maximizing the abilities of either platform so that argument is really moot.

 

But you know what? There are AK fan boys out there who are just as bad. I was talking to a guy the other day who said he would never get a gas impingement AR because of reliability issues. Seriously?

 

You want to even get remotely close to achieving the gun's potential that you own? Shoot the damn thing and keep it clean. It's that simple. You will learn muscle memory that will help overcome the non-issues that shitstain fanboys argue about.

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That forum is made up of some of the stupidest fucking people I've seen on forums. Its sad how so many people can get sucked into the narrow mindset of hating AK's.

I guess they're just pissed that AK's are still the #1 rifle in the world, and for a reason.

 

Number one for sure

 

Every third rate dictatorship on earth and all the Nigerians, Somalians and  jihadis swear by them.

 

and here

There is not a weapon that is more proven. Deal with it.

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The people who engage in this trivial argument are the exact same shitheads who argue about a Camaro being better than a Mustang, or another argument of the like.

 

The reality?? Non of those arm rest commandos commenting will ever be close to maximizing the abilities of either platform so that argument is really moot.

 

But you know what? There are AK fan boys out there who are just as bad. I was talking to a guy the other day who said he would never get a gas impingement AR because of reliability issues. Seriously?

 

You want to even get remotely close to achieving the gun's potential that you own? Shoot the damn thing and keep it clean. It's that simple. You will learn muscle memory that will help overcome the non-issues that shitstain fanboys argue about.

That pretty much sums it up. Go to most any public range and you'll find a lot of people who can barely load a magazine,have no clue how to clear a malfunction.. Let alone understand anything more than bench ready shooting.

Several comments really confirm this too:

"hitting small targets at ranges over 100 yards " cool, when we go to war against paper circle army you'll kick their ass.

"because they smell bad" I have no idea why I have this opinion but somebody told me to.

"they are unwieldy " I've never shot more than a few rounds of anything other than a pistol while standing. And most of that was at a bench..with a 22 my sister loaned me.

" they aren't works of art" because something any dipshit can do at their kitchen table, next to their macaroni masterpiece clearly has a place of reverence among accomplishments.

 

I love when people argue about something as if they did it themselves. My favorite is sports team trash talk. "oh your team sucks, my team kicked your ass " in reality the fucking cheer leaders did more to help win that game than either of them. But you'd swear they were on the sidelines calling the plays themselves of you listened.

A fire arm is a tool, and whatever tool you use for the job,it's your job to know how to use that tool accordingly.

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This story kinda stuck with me, M4 stuff, thought about posting it on the AK Garbage Can Thread

 

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010-07/what-really-happened-wanat

 

According to U.S. Special Operations Command's SOPMOD (special operations peculiar modification) program office, "The current sustained rate of fire for the M4A1 Carbine is 15 rounds per minute and a maximum rate of 90 [rounds] per minute for short periods in an emergency." 18 Firing the M4 carbine at cyclic rates of fire of 90 to 150 rounds per minute, "which is the rate of suppressive fire associated with machine guns" for prolonged periods leads to rapid heating of the barrel and possible failure. 19

Tests conducted by both the Army and by Colt indicate that "exceeding the sustained rate of fire of 15 rounds per minute will result in the weapon ' cooking off' rounds after approximately 170 rounds have been fired." If the maximum rate of fire of 90 rounds per minute "is maintained for about 540 rounds, the barrel softens and gas starts to blow by the bullet, changing the sound and size of the muzzle blast." If the operator continues to fire the weapon, the barrel will begin to droop, and finally, at about 596 rounds, the barrel will burst.

While the current M4 configuration exceeds the Army's requirements for general issue, early in the M4 program, the Special Operations Command requested a heavier barrel profile to accommodate the rapid heating that accompanies special operations forces' (SOF) high firing schedules. The Army denied this request, however, because a heavy barrel would be incompatible with M203 installation and because it did not want to add a SOF-unique repair part to its inventory. 20 In Fiscal Year 2001, Rock Island Arsenal (RIA) "responded to the distinct needs of SOF with the RIA heavy barrel."

The new heavy-profile barrel still allowed for the installation of the M203, but increased the rounds to cook off to 205 rounds, and the round count to barrel burst to 930. While the new heavy profile did not increase the service life of the barrel, it did provide SOF with, per its requirement document, an M4A1 having a limited light machine-gun capability, of a sort, as it requested. 21 It should be noted that the requirement document did not define what this capability meant in the way of sustained fire (in numbers).

In any case, the rationale for such a capability is based on special operations forces' need to break contact with large enemy formations. The method SOFs employ to break contact in such engagements is to lay down an overwhelming burst of fire intended to suppress the enemy long enough for SOFs to slip away. It is for this reason these forces are working to develop a carbine capable of firing two 30-round bursts followed by at least 45 and up to 75 rounds per minute for 440 rounds without damaging the weapon.

Unless you have multiple barrels or water cooling ALL rifles have this limitation 

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That forum is made up of some of the stupidest fucking people I've seen on forums. Its sad how so many people can get sucked into the narrow mindset of hating AK's.

I guess they're just pissed that AK's are still the #1 rifle in the world, and for a reason.

Got a mod over there, goes by " Zhukov". Go figure. Total asshole.
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This story kinda stuck with me, M4 stuff, thought about posting it on the AK Garbage Can Thread

 

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010-07/what-really-happened-wanat

 

According to U.S. Special Operations Command's SOPMOD (special operations peculiar modification) program office, "The current sustained rate of fire for the M4A1 Carbine is 15 rounds per minute and a maximum rate of 90 [rounds] per minute for short periods in an emergency." 18 Firing the M4 carbine at cyclic rates of fire of 90 to 150 rounds per minute, "which is the rate of suppressive fire associated with machine guns" for prolonged periods leads to rapid heating of the barrel and possible failure. 19

Tests conducted by both the Army and by Colt indicate that "exceeding the sustained rate of fire of 15 rounds per minute will result in the weapon ' cooking off' rounds after approximately 170 rounds have been fired." If the maximum rate of fire of 90 rounds per minute "is maintained for about 540 rounds, the barrel softens and gas starts to blow by the bullet, changing the sound and size of the muzzle blast." If the operator continues to fire the weapon, the barrel will begin to droop, and finally, at about 596 rounds, the barrel will burst.

While the current M4 configuration exceeds the Army's requirements for general issue, early in the M4 program, the Special Operations Command requested a heavier barrel profile to accommodate the rapid heating that accompanies special operations forces' (SOF) high firing schedules. The Army denied this request, however, because a heavy barrel would be incompatible with M203 installation and because it did not want to add a SOF-unique repair part to its inventory. 20 In Fiscal Year 2001, Rock Island Arsenal (RIA) "responded to the distinct needs of SOF with the RIA heavy barrel."

The new heavy-profile barrel still allowed for the installation of the M203, but increased the rounds to cook off to 205 rounds, and the round count to barrel burst to 930. While the new heavy profile did not increase the service life of the barrel, it did provide SOF with, per its requirement document, an M4A1 having a limited light machine-gun capability, of a sort, as it requested. 21 It should be noted that the requirement document did not define what this capability meant in the way of sustained fire (in numbers).

In any case, the rationale for such a capability is based on special operations forces' need to break contact with large enemy formations. The method SOFs employ to break contact in such engagements is to lay down an overwhelming burst of fire intended to suppress the enemy long enough for SOFs to slip away. It is for this reason these forces are working to develop a carbine capable of firing two 30-round bursts followed by at least 45 and up to 75 rounds per minute for 440 rounds without damaging the weapon.

Unless you have multiple barrels or water cooling ALL rifles have this limitation 

 

My point exactly, the whole report was interesting tho.

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I own a number of military arms from both world wars, as well as more modern conflicts.

 

 

I have respect for a 98k or an SS marked p08 or a Moisen .

but no reverence for the arm or the men who bore them with the exception of the Russians fighting the Nazis.

the P08 is so elegant and is a craftsmans masterpiece,I appreciate that but it was still the weapon of my enemy.

The 98 was one of the best bolt guns ever made and is still a high water mark, copied to this day.

I love the M1 Garand and the M1A the little carbine as well.

The Thompson and the 1911,

The guns built by craftsmen and machinists hold my interest

 

Like it or not the AR15/M16  brought firearms around the world to the next level

New alloys and polymers as well as space age manufacturing processes.

You can see its influence in just about every modern firearm.  

 

The AK for all its attributes or deficiencies has remained mostly unchanged from its inception.

!940s technology, stamped and riveted components designed for the lowest cost to manufacture that was possible at the time.

Using the least machine work, the simplest equipment and lowest level of technical skill to mass produce.

 

It was communism's (gift to the world) and a major source of income to the USSR, as well a many other weapons like the Russian RPG.

It found favor with any group or country that need the cheapest, simplest weapon to arm untrained undisciplined combatants that operated in the worst of environments.

The AK filled that need like no other arm could, then or now.

 Most modern arms cant hold a candle to the extreme conditions  that an AK can operate in.

And AKs in general cant hold a candle to the precision most modern firearms can produce.

 

The AK is and always has been the go to weapon of our enemies, so in my little world they carry that stigma. 

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The GD forum on arfcom hosts a special kind of basement dwelling full on retarded idiots. I go there for sheer entertainment purposes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the AR platform. Own several. Love the AK platform. Own several. But I am guessing about 90% of the GD people on arfcom have never shot either platform.

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I own a number of military arms from both world wars, as well as more modern conflicts.

 

 

I have respect for a 98k or an SS marked p08 or a Moisen .

but no reverence for the arm or the men who bore them with the exception of the Russians fighting the Nazis.

the P08 is so elegant and is a craftsmans masterpiece,I appreciate that but it was still the weapon of my enemy.

The 98 was one of the best bolt guns ever made and is still a high water mark, copied to this day.

I love the M1 Garand and the M1A the little carbine as well.

The Thompson and the 1911,

The guns built by craftsmen and machinists hold my interest

 

Like it or not the AR15/M16  brought firearms around the world to the next level

New alloys and polymers as well as space age manufacturing processes.

You can see its influence in just about every modern firearm.  

 

The AK for all its attributes or deficiencies has remained mostly unchanged from its inception.

!940s technology, stamped and riveted components designed for the lowest cost to manufacture that was possible at the time.

Using the least machine work, the simplest equipment and lowest level of technical skill to mass produce.

 

It was communism's (gift to the world) and a major source of income to the USSR, as well a many other weapons like the Russian RPG.

It found favor with any group or country that need the cheapest, simplest weapon to arm untrained undisciplined combatants that operated in the worst of environments.

The AK filled that need like no other arm could, then or now.

 Most modern arms cant hold a candle to the extreme conditions  that an AK can operate in.

And AKs in general cant hold a candle to the precision most modern firearms can produce.

 

The AK is and always has been the go to weapon of our enemies, so in my little world they carry that stigma.

 

There are a few well known and well respected weapons that share a similar manufacturing process as the AK. A few of the HKs utilize stamped receivers, as well as FALs among others. I just don't understand why and how people shit on AK's for being stamped, then turn around and praise other weapons that have similar characteristics in their manufacturing as being top notch.

 

The milled AK's were and are far from being cheaply made.

 

I enjoy rifles of all sorts, regardless of their history.

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Aside from getting tangled in the troll net on barfcom, AKs was the best choice for Soviet Army all the way back and probably still is today. There were a lot of studies done, sponsored by the state and the resources to do those tests were enourmous. Two institutes researched best paint and study involved most advanced of all methods available. Shitty black paint was a concious choice based on a lot of research. You may not understand why, but it was a choice.

 

What is good for Soviet Army may not be good for you. Is like you hating a pink velociped because you'd not buy it. Hating like this nonse.

 

Direct impingement would not work for Russia. Too much variation in temperature, in gunpowder. During WWII the quality of gunpowder and ammo in general was really bad, not very consistent. You may not have time to train people to understand gun well and how to deal with this. AK is point and shoot, very open design, you can repair yourself or inspect components. Tank runs over AK, you pick it up and bent it back. It works or easy for parts. Is good choice.

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