I have been hanging out on arfcom

[Juggernaut 11,054]

AK's... COMBAT proven... Period..

 

AR's are GREAT for busting paper at 500 yards..

 

Combat rarely affords the luxury of a 500 yard shot from prone....

 

Semper Fi

[thebuns1 4,323]

Holy shit, that RustedAce dude is an ass.

 

You'd swear his wife ran off on him with an AK.

He's a fucktard. He cant help it.

[thebuns1 4,323]

This is likely what is on the other end of the keyboard for most guys posting in that thread.

[patriot 7,197]

...when you start with "I have been hanging out on Arfcom" we know the rest is just going to be noise from the MallNinja crowd.

 

Here is some more research on the subject:

 

Shrine of the Mall Ninja

[james lambert 3,059]

 There is a black wall in Washington D.C. that has the names of many good men engraved on it. 

 

  Many of those names would not be engraved there if the gun they were issued would have gone BANG!

being told not to clean the gun in a jungle environment and having opted not to chrome the chamber and barrel added to using a cheap powder specifically recommended against by the manufacturer led to those failures.

 

It was never a design flaw in the weapon

 

I had family in Vietnam that were darn glad to have the M16,  over the other options.light weight twice the ammo.

The Vietnamese prized the M16 over their own weapons.

 

This is an AK based forum,  its possible people here have strong opinions about the AK.

Just as the people on arfcom do

[G O B 3,516]

The design of the AR is fine for those who clean and play with them 3 times a week, punch paper or shoot ground hogs.

The design of the AK is great if you are pulling it out from under the bed where it has been for 3 years - as the front door is being kicked in.

[james lambert 3,059]

As I said before

 

At the World shoot where accuracy and dependability  were essential.

 

The russian teams shot AR15s 

In decades of competition all over the USA,  I have not seen a single AK.

And the M16 has done quite a bit more than shoot paper or ground hogs.

Our riflemen with the M16 have defeated in combat all who faced them, most armed with AKs

 

Love on the AK all you want, its cool

 

But claiming the AR is inferior is just ideology not fact 

[Juggernaut 11,054]

I had a catastrophic failure when we breached into Kuwait... I was not carrying an AK...

Rattled my confidence in the platform.. Still, I own AR's... but ratio is 5 to 1 AK's over AR's...

[Spartacus 1,619]

 There is a black wall in Washington D.C. that has the names of many good men engraved on it. 

 

  Many of those names would not be engraved there if the gun they were issued would have gone BANG!

 

+1  GOB

 

The shortcomings of the Stoner gun got our guys killed much more recently than Vietnam too.

Wasn't there a famous extended firefight with the Taliban where our guys lost due to their Stoner rifles over heating?

 

When I made the AR vs. AK choice for the defense of myself and family....

 

I could never get past that foot long metal straw (gas tube) that plugs into a gas key that can have its screws fall

out sometimes if they aren't "properly staked".

 

Screws in the action that can back out sometimes?  Really Mr. Stoner?  There are no screws in the AK action.

The AR is just not the genius engineering it's played up to be.

 

The AK fits exactly what I need for the defense of myself and my family. I drive a Chevy that's made in America, but

my choice of a rifle is certainly not determined over a "Made in America" stamp on it.

[BigChongus 765]

I really like both platforms (hence my current AR SBR build). What really stuck out to me during my research, though, was the stuff AR guys freak out over. Do enough reading on ARFcom and you'd swear LMT not parkerizing under the FSB is sufficient cause for a catastrophic failure. They seem to be a little more out of touch with reality than the crew here.

[thebuns1 4,323]

As I said before

 

At the World shoot where accuracy and dependability  were essential.

 

The russian teams shot AR15s 

In decades of competition all over the USA,  I have not seen a single AK.

And the M16 has done quite a bit more than shoot paper or ground hogs.

Our riflemen with the M16 have defeated in combat all who faced them, most armed with AKs

 

Love on the AK all you want,

 

If our grunts used AK's, the result would be the same. And competition don't really justify how effective a weapon is in combat.

 

And for the whole Vietnam subject, take out the air superiority aspect from the majority of the fire fights, and things would have likely ended differently in many of the confrontations.

 

I like them both. But I really don't feel the AR is a better weapon for combat, nor that it belongs in the trash.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Plenty o grunts traded 'em in for a Thompson...

[mancat 2,368]

I really like both platforms (hence my current AR SBR build). What really stuck out to me during my research, though, was the stuff AR guys freak out over. Do enough reading on ARFcom and you'd swear LMT not parkerizing under the FSB is sufficient cause for a catastrophic failure. They seem to be a little more out of touch with reality than the crew here.

 

I'm building a budget PSA mid-length AR right now that still has quality core parts in it - CHF/CL FN-manufactured barrel, and milspec everything including a MPI Carpenter 158 bolt & chrome-lined carrier.. I've already compared the PSA lower to a buddy's LMT lower, and the differences are imperceptible. Same forging process, same metallurgy, same dimensions, even machining looks identical. But the majority of the snobs will still shit all over it because of whose roll mark it has on it. It's unbelievable.

 

 

 

 There is a black wall in Washington D.C. that has the names of many good men engraved on it. 

 

  Many of those names would not be engraved there if the gun they were issued would have gone BANG!

 

+1  GOB

 

The shortcomings of the Stoner gun got our guys killed much more recently than Vietnam too.

Wasn't there a famous extended firefight with the Taliban where our guys lost due to their Stoner rifles over heating?

 

When I made the AR vs. AK choice for the defense of myself and family....

 

I could never get past that foot long metal straw (gas tube) that plugs into a gas key that can have its screws fall

out sometimes if they aren't "properly staked".

 

Screws in the action that can back out sometimes?  Really Mr. Stoner?  There are no screws in the AK action.

The AR is just not the genius engineering it's played up to be.

 

The AK fits exactly what I need for the defense of myself and my family. I drive a Chevy that's made in America, but

my choice of a rifle is certainly not determined over a "Made in America" stamp on it.

 

 

Welllll... There is one rather large screw in an AK. It's the gas piston. However it's either pinned, welded, or dimpled in place, and it's already known that the 100 series dimples sometimes fail and allow the piston to unthread.

 

The shortcomings of the AR were as gentlemanjim said, a result of bean-counting. Stoner/Armalite had a very specific spec for the barrel/chamber, as well as the powder to be used. The .mil cheaped out and changed the specs on both without consulting Armalite. Telling the troops that the rifle did not need to be cleaned? Absolutely bizarre. The AR as debuted in Vietnam would've been totally different were it not for these human fuckups.

[thebuns1 4,323]

The only AR I own is a DD. Its dead nuts accurate, reliable and a joy to shoot. But if the shit goes down I'm reaching for my SAM7Sf or my SGL. My AKs do all I could ask them to. YMMV.

[BigChongus 765]

 

I really like both platforms (hence my current AR SBR build). What really stuck out to me during my research, though, was the stuff AR guys freak out over. Do enough reading on ARFcom and you'd swear LMT not parkerizing under the FSB is sufficient cause for a catastrophic failure. They seem to be a little more out of touch with reality than the crew here.

 

I'm building a budget PSA mid-length AR right now that still has quality core parts in it - CHF/CL FN-manufactured barrel, and milspec everything including a MPI Carpenter 158 bolt & chrome-lined carrier.. I've already compared the PSA lower to a buddy's LMT lower, and the differences are imperceptible. Same forging process, same metallurgy, same dimensions, even machining looks identical. But the majority of the snobs will still shit all over it because of whose roll mark it has on it. It's unbelievable.

 

 

 

That's good to hear. I'm trying to decide on a 10.5" upper right now, and I was set on an LMT, but I'm considering the PSA. The combination of the $300 price tag and FN CHF barrel are really tempting. I could drop a Spike's NiB BCG and a BCM charging handle in it and still spend less than the LMT without either of those.

[Spartacus 1,619]

>>Welllll... There is one rather large screw in an AK. It's the gas piston.

 

[DLT 1,646]

I like my Colt 6920, but I love all of my AK's. My SGL's are my go to guns.

[BigChongus 765]

Here's some more gold I stumbled upon a while back.

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1446406__ARCHIVED_THREAD____AR_Manufacturer_Tier_Quality_Ranking.html&page=1

[XD45 7,124]

If our grunts used AK's, the result would be the same.

Ding Ding Ding!!!

 

Was just getting ready to say if the weapons were switched the outcomes would be the same. Cause it's the man using the rifle that is the weapon.

 

Both are battle proven. So are the FAL, G3, M14, and others.

 

The knowledgeable seldom indulge in the argument.

[SmilinEd 364]

 

 There is a black wall in Washington D.C. that has the names of many good men engraved on it. 

 

  Many of those names would not be engraved there if the gun they were issued would have gone BANG!

 

+1  GOB

 

The shortcomings of the Stoner gun got our guys killed much more recently than Vietnam too.

Wasn't there a famous extended firefight with the Taliban where our guys lost due to their Stoner rifles over heating?

 

Yep, thats what my 2nd post to this thread contained.

 

Camp Kahler, Wanat, Afghanistan

 

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010-07/what-really-happened-wanat

 

There are other reports of that battle, July 2008, google Battle for Camp Kahler

 

Here is the battle account...

 

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2009/10/an_early_account_of_the_battle.php

 

The name has been changed also, Camp Keating.

Edited December 18, 2014 by SmilinEd

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

AK for the WIN, just because you can pack your lunch and sweets inside. 

[storm6490 2,768]

For what it's worth, I was issued an M16A2 in the 90's and it was a great target rifle. It could take a hit but was pesky about keeping clean. The 5.56mm NATO round should be reserved for training and target shooting only.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Stryker0946

[_Boris_ 63]

ah, good point about the round, so how about 76.2(308) vs 5.45(556) ?

[magsite20 1,664]

somewhere there is another forum that is laughing at this whole train of thought about ARs and AKs

[Capt Nemo 882]

The 5.45 round is probably a tad better than the M193, but not by much.  I believe the old 7N6 had a small air pocket between the jacket and penetrator, and acted like a hollow point, from what SOF said about their testing in Afganistan back in the 80's. 

 

 

Weapon of choice for me:

 

Mini 14 if I want you dead.  (1 enlarged hole at 100yds)

AR-15 if I want to send a good warning. (under 4" group at 100)

AKM if I want to give you a sporting chance. (E type silhouette at 100)

[james lambert 3,059]

You must mean M14 or M1a

 

a mini 14 can only hit the side of a barn ...if its locked inside

[thebuns1 4,323]

I'm not a fan of mini 14s.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I well remember only too well the company line Uncle had on the AK v AR and I, being of course a malcontent smartass, would raise my hand and ask...

 

"Is this from the same folks that swore the M4 tank was the best in the world in WW2?"

 

Errr....

 

Save the propaganda for the taxpayers. 

[Capt Nemo 882]

You must mean M14 or M1a

 

a mini 14 can only hit the side of a barn ...if its locked inside

Nope!  My Mini is one rare beast that actually hits it's target.  Using the factory stock, the single hole opens to about the same as my Colt SP1.  The Zytel folding stock fits the action and barrel really tight to make it hit a fly in the ass.

 

I've turned down $3500 for it, after it outshot one barrelmaker's bull target barrels. (His best were dime sized groups at 100)  I'd never get rid of a gun that's that accurate!  You see this accuracy once out of every 100,000 weapons out the door.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Damn you hit the powerball man