XD45 7,124 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 CAUTION: INTERNET RUMOR! I came across a post today on youtube claiming that Saiga and Vepr production is moving to somewhere in the EU to get around the sanctions. No source was given. I couldn't find any information about it, although KC is starting a clothing line and I suspect somebody got their signals crossed. Have any of you seen anything about this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Edited January 3, 2015 by HighPlainsDrifter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've herd some shit that it was going to the Ukraine, but I'm not sure how accurate the info is. I can't find the source I was told had it either. For now, its doubtful but always somewhat possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I wouldn't hold my breath 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
horatio 515 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'd love to see it, I'd buy a pair of vepr 12s in a heartbeat. But to be honest I have more hope and dollars set on Cameron's 12 gauge project. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed I can use my csspecs and Sgm mags without any modifying or adapters Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 They are "changing ownership" as the sanctions were against wealthy individuals and once that individual doesn't own Kalashnikov, they are importable again unless there are further sanctions. Allegedly, this will be completed in the springtime of this year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I don't see how that helps as KC is still 51% state owned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 They could do it so long as the money doesn't go back to Russia from the way I was told. Hard to say what will happen and how. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont see moving or building a new factory just to sell to us Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I know we'd all be very happy to see our beloved Saigas return. But until I see something concrete I'll just assume not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Plenty of Russian shit coming into the US is "Made in Belarus" IIRC the sanctions actually name individuals and corporations, not just geographical regions, so they would have to operate under some isolated shell company. I think Russians are typically pretty good at that. I dont see moving or building a new factory just to sell to us Izhmash made some comments in recent years that like 75% or more of their sales were to the US market. Without it, they only have a small EU civilian sales market, and limited .mil contracts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Plenty of Russian shit coming into the US is "Made in Belarus" IIRC the sanctions actually name individuals and corporations, not just geographical regions, so they would have to operate under some isolated shell company. I think Russians are typically pretty good at that. I dont see moving or building a new factory just to sell to us Izhmash made some comments in recent years that like 75% or more of their sales were to the US market. Without it, they only have a small EU civilian sales market, and limited .mil contracts. The last time I read anything about it, I think it was rich around 50%+ was shipped here. Hard to say the exact numbers but I know it was high. Enough to probably warrant such a move long term. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The whole thing is about economic ties. Kalash co and Molot aren't going to license a factory for free, and even then a case could be made that they get financial value for increased "good will" thus putting a franchise elsewhere doesn't solve the e.o.'s problem. I've heard these rumors every few weeks since the e.o., and all of them seem to not understand the fundamental issue of what the order blocks. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE NEW GUY 113 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think Saigas and Veprs are done with all the cheap ARs and the century stuff , and all the other countries that can import , I don't think there will ever be a political push to let them back in ,but I HOPE I am wrong . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I fail to see how changing ownership or country of manufacture solves anything. The sanctions were put into place without congressional ratification, by the stroke of a pen with no questions or consequences for our President. They will be just as easily modified by him to keep the sanctions in place. This was just as much about limiting firearms importation as it was about "looking tough" against Russian aggression. KC won't get around the sanctions by changing owners or moving manufacturing, regardless how much of the pie the US market is for their sales. IMO we won't see Saigas or VEPR's again until 2017 at a minimum. Likely 2021 or 2025 if a democrat wins the presidency in 2016. I hope I am wrong, but I can see the writing on the wall as clear as if it is already a memory. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I dont think we will see them either. Ive always felt that it was more about undermining the 2nd than it was ever about Russia. Using Russia was just the pretext to execute such a move. Its bullshit either way. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Since the Russian economy is tanking again perhaps if this does happen we'll see more affordable prices again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I'm more concerned with if the price for them will ever be affordable again. All of the Arsenals and Saiga's available now are well over a $1000. Even if more came into the market, I don't see the price ever coming back to what they were just a few years ago. The American makers are the way to go now. Kind of funny if you think about it. A few years back it was the Saiga's that were the affordable ones and the US made were the expensive ones. If we only knew then what we know now. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) The American makers aren't really all that competitive. The cheapest AKs coming in are still from Romania and Serbia. I guess I'm surprised though that some US company isn't making a 100% US-made STAMPED AKM clone that is competitive price-wise with rifles being imported, or even with attractive features like built-in AR magwells and more AKs chambered in 5.56. I find it hard to believe that the milling work involved in building some of the US-made milled receivers is more cost-effective than making trunnions and stamped receiver. It's not like they're complicated components. However at this point in the game you can put together a very nice AR with quality parts, for the same price as most of these AKs, including the Saiga. Shit, a few years back I figured I would never have an AR, now I'm building one and considering starting on another slowly. The prices on AR parts are retarded low and there are hundreds of quality manufacturers to choose from. Price-wise, the AK market is toast by comparison. As for the Saigas, I don't see much reason to buy one unless you think that they'll be highly collectible down the road. I don't know if they'll end up like the Chinese AKs did. I mean to this day, Russian SKS don't hold a massive premium over other types of SKS rifles, and they've been banned from import for decades now. I do feel bad for the people that missed out on them at stupid low prices, but even if they do come in again, I'm not sure I see them selling in the sub-$300 range. Edited January 5, 2015 by mancat 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magsite20 1,664 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Putin will never play nice with others once the gobberment taxes something it stays taxed once the gobberment bans a foreign imported gun it stays banned the only hope to get the ban lifted would be have minority gays lead the protest, they seem to be able to get anything they want done 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_Boris_ 63 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I believe that Izhmash was subsidized in some shape or form from time to time, being a strategic manufacturing base. It's not going under. Also Izhmash isn't all about guns, it never was. "mash" stands for machine building and they supplied a lot of machines to civilian factories around USSR. Also, it's the only game in town if you live there, not exactly many choices to leave the factory and drive 1000miles for another job. With prices on Saigas retarded high, there is really good incentive and markup to bring them to US. How it doesn't matter, like any other crap that's banned, including Cuban cigars, ivory and whale sushi. If price is high enough, you can get it. Belorussia and even Ukraine can pass them through as rebranded civ rifles. Ukraine makes arms and those components can come from anywhere. Even in communist Russia money is green. That said, we are not going to see prices this low again. Chinese Catamounts are major factor. It's still rough around edges but for $400 (before this Xmass) you get two mags, 3 chokes, bolt open + last round open and beloved rail on the dust cover. The shotties shot up to $600 now, but they could be as cheap and as plentyful as Saigas once were. Consumers like money too, they like cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) It would not be smart for Saiga to do this while the original Ban Signer still holds power. Edited January 6, 2015 by mostholycerebus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_Boris_ 63 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Saiga will be renamed Bananga 12 and exported from Cuba with extra communism. Barry would like that shit. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I guess there's always that shitty Chinese shotgun.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 The name may change but the shotgun will be the same. It will be a good summer I hope. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I've sold off a few to buy more expensive guns that had been out of reach for some time. For the record I did not coerce anyone to pay my asking prices. They bought them of their own free will. While I still have a couple, but a weapon you can't get parts for is of little use if it breaks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 You don't have to justify selling something you own at a price somebody is willing to pay. I sold my S12 during the panic for a stupid price and had a line of guys willing to pay it. Waited until after the panic and replaced it with something I like better for way less money. And if there is another panic I'll sell some other things. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 You don't have to justify selling something you own at a price somebody is willing to pay. I sold my S12 during the panic for a stupid price and had a line of guys willing to pay it. Waited until after the panic and replaced it with something I like better for way less money. And if there is another panic I'll sell some other things. This. If somebody wants to call you a gouger Liberty, then fuckem. Nobody forces anyone to buy anything, except government healthcare. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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