Comment on Paris attack, jihad, etc.

[Lone Eagle 839]

Religion is forced upon all of us everyday in one form or another. It is just more apparent to someone like me who does not buy into it.

I can't turn on the TV or even come on a gun forum without having religion shoved down my throat. I don't force my beliefs on anyone

but I sure get others beliefs forced upon me on a daily basis.

It is good that I live in a free country where I can voice my opinion on religion, otherwise I would have been slaughtered years ago for my disbeliefs..

Forced upon you?  As a Christian, I have yet to go out and force anyone to believe as I do.  I may speak about it, but if you say you are not interested, then I drop it.  The only religion I see being forced is Islam......at the barrel of a gun.  Now that is forcing religion on you.

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

Oh yeah well a ford is way better than a chevy and an AK eats AR's for lunch.

 

How about we just soak everyone in bacon grease and let the devil sort it out? Hades would love it..... oh snap nobody fights over who the real devil is? Such a tragedy....

 

You are you, believe what you want, enjoy life. Treat others as you want to be treated, unless they are trying to kill you or yours. Then fucking waste them with extreme prejudice.

 

Carry on.......

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

No better example of the Christian religion being forced upon the world than X-mas.

For 3 months out of every year it is shoved in our face. And it seems to get longer and longer each year.

They started promoting X-mas before Halloween this year. Just try to ignore or get around that…impossible.

The only way a person could escape that bombardment of religion is to live on the moon.

I could name a dozen other examples on how religion is forced upon society on a daily manner, but I have made my point.

[horatio 515]

No better example of the Christian religion being forced upon the world than X-mas.

For 3 months out of every year it is shoved in our face. And it seems to get longer and longer each year.

They started promoting X-mas before Halloween this year. Just try to ignore or get around that…impossible.

The only way a person could escape that bombardment of religion is to live on the moon.

I could name a dozen other examples on how religion is forced upon society on a daily manner, but I have made my point.

I agree with you 100% on Christmas being shoved down our throat too early and too much.

 

However, to equate the bullshit put out on tv and on the streets to the actual reason for the season is like saying listening to a liberal talk about guns as being well informed on the subject. 90% of what I see in the season has 0 to do with my religion.

 

You have made your point. You've just supported it poorly.

[james lambert 3,059]

it is present in our society as 80 some percent call themselves Christians.

Our country, our culture, our Government, our judicial system are all based in Judeo Christian values.

 

You do not have to participate in Christmas or any other religious event, not one thing is forced on you.

 You can even work on the holidays for double time.

People like you would be so happy to take away all the vestiges of Christianity from all of the rest just so you dont have to SEE it Or HEAR about it.

 

The simple fact that it exists and is celebrated by countless millions of people is what you have the problem with.

You and your tiny minority who cannot believe in anything greater than yourselves have no right to take anything from the rest of us.

No more that the rest of us can make you go to church or worship any deity or get baptized.  

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

You talk bullshit. You say shit that makes you feel important.

Everything you said in that statement is 100% wrong.

But I understand you are to pompous to comprehend it.

I could care less what you worship or believe, no more than I care what you think of my beliefs.

I am just sick of your bullshit religion being forced upon others is what my point is….what part of that don't you understand.

 

Why am I wrong but your right. Because you are a religious sheep and I am not.

[james lambert 3,059]

I suggest you move to Iran or Saudi Arabia so you can get a handle on the meaning of religion being FORCED upon you 

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

I was forced to attend catholic school until I was 12. I was forced to go to church every sunday.

I was forced to live by a code of ethics. I had no say so on any of it until I turned 18.

Sure, my life wasn't threatened by it, but it was still forced upon me with no say by me whatsoever.

Forced upon is just that, It doesn't have to be done with violence to be achieved.

 

Religion in this country is a lot like taxes.

You won't get killed for not paying taxes but are forced to do it just the same.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH

[james lambert 3,059]

So all this BS boils down to mommy and daddy made you do things you didn't want to do ..

 

Thats just plain pathetic 

But it explains a lot

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

It was pathetic, but a lesson well learned.

For now I can walk upright while you still crawl on all fours.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH

[pjj342 632]

1. it is present in our society as 80 some percent call themselves Christians.

2. Our country, our culture, our Government, our judicial system are all based in Judeo Christian values.

1.  Sure 80% claim it, but only 5% know a damn thing about it. They dont know anything about the bible and what little they know, are teeny, out of context excerpts that their preacher, or grandma told them.  Most christians today can barely handle reading the olde thyme language of the book itself, let alone properly understand what they just read.

 

2. When you say our entire system is based on judeo christian values you are right.  Our system is also based on the threat of violence to those who do not comply with its mandates (ie. force).  Doesnt this mean we are forced to comply with a system of judeo christian values?  

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

I was forced to attend catholic school until I was 12. I was forced to go to church every sunday.

I was forced to live by a code of ethics. I had no say so on any of it until I turned 18.

Sure, my life wasn't threatened by it, but it was still forced upon me with no say by me whatsoever.

Forced upon is just that, It doesn't have to be done with violence to be achieved.

 

Religion in this country is a lot like taxes.

You won't get killed for not paying taxes but are forced to do it just the same.

You sound like a spoiled child.  Sure while we are being raised we have to abide by our parent's rule's -- pretty sure 99.9 of the population had to undergo that.  If you are older than 21 I would suggest you get past your childhood traumas and mature a bit, they are shaping you to be a vindictive narrow minded old man.

If you are out from under your parent's roof, no one is forcing religion on you here in the U.S. (in contrast to elsewhere).  I wonder if you feel forced to buy a certain type of dish washing detergent because it is being advertised/forced upon you many times during the day?  In fact, the advertising for such common items far outweighs any religious proselytizing one would experience on a day to day basis. 

Shotgun, why do you feel forced by religion but not by dish soap?

[pjj342 632]

For now I can walk upright while you still crawl on all fours.

Yea, until you get tazed for back talking

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

 

1. it is present in our society as 80 some percent call themselves Christians.

2. Our country, our culture, our Government, our judicial system are all based in Judeo Christian values.

1.  Sure 80% claim it, but only 5% know a damn thing about it. They dont know anything about the bible and what little they know, are teeny, out of context excerpts that their preacher, or grandma told them.  Most christians today can barely handle reading the olde thyme language of the book itself, let alone properly understand what they just read.

 

2. When you say our entire system is based on judeo christian values you are right.  Our system is also based on the threat of violence to those who do not comply with its mandates (ie. force).  Doesnt this mean we are forced to comply with a system of judeo christian values?  

 

1.  Would you count yourself as part of the 5% or the 95%?

2.  I would say the 95% because of your interpretation of Judeo Christian values.  If you understood what they mean I feel you would wholeheartedly endorse them as good and worthwhile.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

Shotgun, why do you feel forced by religion but not by dish soap?

 

That is a pretty vague statement at best don't you think.

Kind of like saying God made everything.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

 

For now I can walk upright while you still crawl on all fours.

Yea, until you get tazed for back talking

 

Uh yeah, we Christians are issued tazers right after baptism -- Watch Out!!!

 

Shotgun, why do you feel forced by religion but not by dish soap?

 

That is a pretty vague statement at best don't you think.

Kind of like saying God made everything.

 

Come on buddy, time to put the thinking cap on and reread the post.  Here's a bit o help = was trying to show you how your upbringing has warped your filters and how you irrationally see religion as a threat...

 

Oh, and as an aside, God did make everything, we just rearrange it.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

I am very grateful for the way I was raised. It opened my eyes to the truth.

I am of open mind, all I ask is the one simple question people like me ask.

Prove to me God exists.

and best of luck with that one.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

Christians are great at putting words and twisting words to benefit their beliefs.

And to form an opinion on someone who does not accept their beliefs.

 

Just like a liberal. But then again, their leader Jesus was a liberal so that explains a lot.

 

It is hilarious to hear a Christian say they hate all things Liberal or Relish in the thought of blood for blood.

It is against everything their religion stands for. They are truly lost as to who they even are.

But thats what religion does to people, It brainwashes them into one way of thinking, that their way is

justified and the only right way.

 

Religion is a mental illness.

Edited January 10, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

I am very grateful for the way I was raised. It opened my eyes to the truth.

I am of open mind, all I ask is the one simple question people like me ask.

Prove to me God exists.

and best of luck with that one.

Only God can prove Himself and He does so.

There is a famous picture of Jesus knocking on a door of a house -- it is to illustrate that unless a person "unlocks" their inner defenses to allow Christ to enter their hearts, then Christ will remain outside wishing to enter.  Sure God can do anything and could blast down the door of our will and make us love Him but then we would just be puppets and our will would be negated.  God wants us to come to Him freely.  Put it this way; would you want to have the person you love most in your life be around you just because you have obligated them to or would you want them to freely love you with all their heart?

 

Shotgun, I was an agnostic until I was 26.  I was dating an exotic dancer who was Christian (talk about a strange combo -- that brings up the subject of hypocrisy which we Christians are no strangers to...) and she kept giving me these facts such as archeologists have used the bible to find ancient lost cities and the fact that even though the bible was written by so many different people over the course of 100's of years that there is a constant consistent thread that runs throughout.  Finally one day she said this: "Even if they found Noah's ark on mount Ararat and put it on display in the Smithsonian for all to see, still there would be some who would not believe."  We were sitting at her kitchen table when she said this (this is where I really lose you) and all of a sudden I felt this warm tingling sensation run through my body and I looked to her front door truly expecting to see Jesus walk through it.  After that moment in time I have known / not believed the Truth of God. 

 

I see proof of God in all things around me -- something as simple as a hummingbird.  What logical explanation is there for it? For its spectacular beauty or its jaw dropping flight characteristics.  If we go with the theory of evolution, either all birds would evolve into the perfection of hummingbirds or the hummingbird would evolve and disappear. 

 

Shotgun,  I don't write to argue with you and I have been told by the wife that I have lost the argument since I started it out with name calling.  You have my apologies for that.  Every human walks through life carrying their own burdens and it is not up to me to call them out.  I only write in the hope that we may meet someday in the far future.  God bless.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Odd Man Out

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

So you married the exotic dancer? Good for you Oddman

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

Christians are great at putting words and twisting words to benefit their beliefs.

And to form an opinion on someone who does not accept their beliefs.

 

Just like a liberal. But then again, their leader Jesus was a liberal so that explains a lot.

 

It is hilarious to hear a Christian say they hate all things Liberal or Relish in the thought of blood for blood.

It is against everything their religion stands for. They are truly lost as to who they even are.

But thats what religion does to people, It brainwashes them into one way of thinking, that their way is

justified and the only right way.

The problems with Christians is that they are only fellow sinful humans just like everyone else -- subject to the same hypocrisies, doubts, mistakes and misinterpretations.  Just because Christians believe and follow Jesus, it does not elevate them above anyone -- in fact being a Christian should highlight the fact that we are fallen sinful creatures and should be eternally overjoyed and thankful for being rescued by Christ's sacrifice on the cross.  Christians understand that they are saved and that those who do not know Christ are not.  It is only from love that a Christian talks about Christ to others in the hopes that many will be saved. Humans are humans -- it is proof of God to me that we are the dominant lifeform on this planet for without God's help and guidance we would have only been some saber tooth tiger's lunch...

So you married the exotic dancer? Good for you Oddman

Unfortunately no, just another of many mistakes I have made...

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

Im all for something that makes it easier for you to comprehend the existence of life.

That is what God was invented for in the first place.

 

But just because someone like me does not need a God, does not make me the bad guy. Well it does to a pompous way of thinking.

I accept things for what they are, I don't need an explanation for it's existence or a belief that it will live on once it is gone.

I believe in what I can see smell and taste. Hard evidence. I just cannot believe in fables and scriptures and ghosts.

It is funny that the one thing human civilization is so animate about is the one thing that cannot be proved to even exist.

[h3ws12hi 15]

Nor can HIS existence be disproven with empirical evidence.

[h3ws12hi 15]

Think about halloween...who's being worshipped then...and look at the way many embrace that well advertised yearly event.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

 

1.  But just because someone like me does not need a God, does not make me the bad guy.

2.  I accept things for what they are, I don't need an explanation for it's existence or a belief that it will live on once it is gone.

3.  I believe in what I can see smell and taste. Hard evidence.

4.  It is funny that the one thing human civilization is so animate about is the one thing that cannot be proved to even exist.

1.  But where did you come by your bedrock of moral principals?  Whether you know it or like it or not you have accepted and are following the basic tenants (although flawed and sinful) that are taught by Christianity -- by that I mean that you believe in love over hate, good over evil because if you didn't you would be indeed a bad guy and operating outside the laws and morality of our nation.  You don't kill small animals, eat child and suchlike do you? 

 

2.  Again, how did you come up with your bedrock of beliefs.  One can not escape the influences of the society in which they live.  Many try to rebel against them with varying degrees of success.  A vast majority need to see themselves as totally in control of their situation.  In a vacuum this is natural, mankind needs to feel in charge.  We need to conquer and control.  Kind of goes against the theory of needing to create a God figure doesn't it?

 

3.  Really?!? Light and Oxygen are but two of many things around you that you acknowledge at face value for existing.  Would you deny the existence of a person standing before you if you had your eyes shut?  Probably because you did not have all the information.  Now let's say someone else told you that someone was standing before you and you still denied it because you thought you knew better -- that is how Christians view agnostics and atheists but more importantly what if you were drowning and the person before you could save you?  How sad would that be?

 

4.  Indeed funny and thought provoking.  On the one hand mankind strives to control and conquer and prove that we are in charge of all and yet we are continually faced with the question of "is this all there is?"  All we need to do is to step down from our self created throne. humble ourselves and God will indeed reveal Himself.  If not now then there be a time when Christ returns that all knees WILL bow.

[Spacehog 2,219]

Gentlemen,

Stop feeding the troll. It is not worth the effort except for arguing for argument's sake. Moving back to the gun threads now.

[Squeaky 135]

Hey Guys:

 

I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of response. To "Shotgun Messiah" I can only say I did not mean in any way to make you feel like I was evangelizing or anything like that. The truth is I most likely share many of your opinions. Jesus himself rebelled against the legalism of the church of his time. He called them out on it and they crucified him for it. That's historic fact. So ... I invite anyone to get to know a rebel called Jesus.  

 

I should have made it clearer that my rant is aimed at the general culture of evangelical churches today that is unintentionally another thing causing the weakening of American men in general. A missionary friend of mine thinks it can be traced to the 1970's when folks reacted to the Vietnam War and the whole peace movement began. The church reacted too and seems to have let culture shape it instead of it shaping the culture.   

 

The only way I know to really make my point is to say I would think (and feel) like the church is a real source of strength in my life if I were a modern American woman. The culture .... the man-made culture ... of it really affirms women and their femininity. Shotgun Messiah might like to know I've sort of given up and have decided to just read the Bible on my own.

 

Classmates and other boys I've seen raised in my local Baptist church who later became military officers had one thing in common - a father who related to them, did stuff with them therefore affirming their masculine identities, and unwittingly shielded them from the feminine influences of their mom, the church, and secular culture. For me, in retrospect, the church was essentially a second mother.

 

Meanwhile ,,,, since I've first submitted this post, I've heard a few muslim leaders (like al Sissi (?) of Egypt) say things which seem to confirm another idea that maybe Islam is finally undergoing its own reformation. Unfortunately, a lot of crap is happening in the process. 

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

 

 

1.  But just because someone like me does not need a God, does not make me the bad guy.

2.  I accept things for what they are, I don't need an explanation for it's existence or a belief that it will live on once it is gone.

3.  I believe in what I can see smell and taste. Hard evidence.

4.  It is funny that the one thing human civilization is so animate about is the one thing that cannot be proved to even exist.

1.  But where did you come by your bedrock of moral principals?  Whether you know it or like it or not you have accepted and are following the basic tenants (although flawed and sinful) that are taught by Christianity -- by that I mean that you believe in love over hate, good over evil because if you didn't you would be indeed a bad guy and operating outside the laws and morality of our nation.  You don't kill small animals, eat child and suchlike do you? 

 

2.  Again, how did you come up with your bedrock of beliefs.  One can not escape the influences of the society in which they live.  Many try to rebel against them with varying degrees of success.  A vast majority need to see themselves as totally in control of their situation.  In a vacuum this is natural, mankind needs to feel in charge.  We need to conquer and control.  Kind of goes against the theory of needing to create a God figure doesn't it?

 

3.  Really?!? Light and Oxygen are but two of many things around you that you acknowledge at face value for existing.  Would you deny the existence of a person standing before you if you had your eyes shut?  Probably because you did not have all the information.  Now let's say someone else told you that someone was standing before you and you still denied it because you thought you knew better -- that is how Christians view agnostics and atheists but more importantly what if you were drowning and the person before you could save you?  How sad would that be?

 

4.  Indeed funny and thought provoking.  On the one hand mankind strives to control and conquer and prove that we are in charge of all and yet we are continually faced with the question of "is this all there is?"  All we need to do is to step down from our self created throne. humble ourselves and God will indeed reveal Himself.  If not now then there be a time when Christ returns that all knees WILL bow.

 

funny how God/ Christianity is your answer to it all    Goes back to the God made everything quote.

Why have the greatest minds on earth all denounced God for what he is ??, which is nothing more than a myth.

Does it take a genius to accept/see this fact?   Simple minds need simple answers. There is nothing wrong with that.

It is nothing to get defensive or mad about. Some of us have the ability to see past the facade, most don't or are afraid to.

We can go back and forth but in the end you have your views and I have mine and I suspect neither will give into the others.

Which in point takes us back to the very point I was trying to make that religion does nothing but turn man against man.

 It only causes death and harm to humanity. History tells the story. There are no winners in the end.

 

If man indeed killed the son of God, don't you think the almighty one would have done away with us all??

Why would such a deed go without punisment?

Or maybe he has not heard yet, I guess news travels slow out in space. 

What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?

Edited January 11, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH

[Spacehog 2,219]

Hey Guys:

 

I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of response. To "Shotgun Messiah" I can only say I did not mean in any way to make you feel like I was evangelizing or anything like that. The truth is I most likely share many of your opinions. Jesus himself rebelled against the legalism of the church of his time. He called them out on it and they crucified him for it. That's historic fact. So ... I invite anyone to get to know a rebel called Jesus.  

 

I should have made it clearer that my rant is aimed at the general culture of evangelical churches today that is unintentionally another thing causing the weakening of American men in general. A missionary friend of mine thinks it can be traced to the 1970's when folks reacted to the Vietnam War and the whole peace movement began. The church reacted too and seems to have let culture shape it instead of it shaping the culture.   

 

The only way I know to really make my point is to say I would think (and feel) like the church is a real source of strength in my life if I were a modern American woman. The culture .... the man-made culture ... of it really affirms women and their femininity. Shotgun Messiah might like to know I've sort of given up and have decided to just read the Bible on my own.

 

Classmates and other boys I've seen raised in my local Baptist church who later became military officers had one thing in common - a father who related to them, did stuff with them therefore affirming their masculine identities, and unwittingly shielded them from the feminine influences of their mom, the church, and secular culture. For me, in retrospect, the church was essentially a second mother.

 

Meanwhile ,,,, since I've first submitted this post, I've heard a few muslim leaders (like al Sissi (?) of Egypt) say things which seem to confirm another idea that maybe Islam is finally undergoing its own reformation. Unfortunately, a lot of crap is happening in the process.

 

 

No need to apologize Squeaky, I think most of us understood your point, and it was well taken. Instead of a discussion of strong men in American society, and the positive effect it could have, the thread has been hijacked into arguing over the existence of God and Christian bashing.

 

Give it a rest already SM, you have made your point. Nobody's mind will be changed on either side, so why don't we all move on.

[Odd Man Out 1,283]

"Give it a rest already SM, you have made your point. Nobody's mind will be changed on either side, so why don't we all move on."

 

Ah, but maybe the words were not written for Shotty.  Maybe someone will stumble upon this thread and gain understanding and Salvation through the reading of it.  At the very least they will see how the rejection of God's Word can pervert one's world view...  whether coming from a rabid muslim or a simple American.  SpaceHog, you are right -- there is a Bible passage - Mathew 7:6 that is totally relevant here.  I'm done but God never is!