SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 For now I can walk upright while you still crawl on all fours. Yea, until you get tazed for back talking Uh yeah, we Christians are issued tazers right after baptism -- Watch Out!!! I was referring to gentlemanjim, ya goober. Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) The guy definitely likes putting his 2 cents into everybody's pot, thats for sure. Edited January 11, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I think SM will stand with me in saying, the promises of doom or salvation via someone elses saviour is neither helpful or scary. We think its silly at best, and really annoying at worst. At times our atheism may seem offensive to your own beliefs, but rest assured, your beliefs are just as offensive to us. What many refuse to understand is WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD. Its not a threat and its not through disrespect, it is a fundamental understanding of the world around us that can not be undone. Its the same as a devoted religious mans faith, it is steadfast, permanent, and completely without doubt. Please christians, dont feel you are alone. We dont believe in ANY GOD THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY. To us, your christian gods rational probability of existence is exactly the same as the THOUSANDS OF GODS world wide, since the beginning of human imagination. You may feel your faith is superior to these thousands of past or foreign gods. Well, thats great, good for you. The followers of every other religion in existence feels the exactly the same about this, and in their eyes, you are wrong. I hate being like this. Especially since many good christians on this forum have helped me alot, some personally, and I greatly appreciate them as people (spacehog). However, I cannot unlearn the information and observations from which my lack of faith developed, the same as you cant unprogram yours. Unconvincingly back to the OP, our lack of belief makes us no weaker as a nation. Remember, muslims hate all of us. Edited January 11, 2015 by Boomsick42 6 Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Well said, nice to see someone gets it… I think they get all bent out of shape and see it as threat because it makes them feel less intelligent to see someone go above and beyond their beliefs. Edited January 11, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Boom Thanks for your thoughtful response. I don't think Christians are "against" atheists or agnostics (I know I have nothing against y'all), it is just hard not to try and help (of course our interpretations vastly differ) a person in need. I find shotty's aggressive, defensive, continual lashing out against religion to be almost a cry for help. I think if one were to read through our interaction on this thread you would find one of us actively attacking and one attempting to use reason. Again, I appreciate your honest forthright post. Just one thing really jumped out at me from your post that I must correct: "At times our atheism may seem offensive to your own beliefs, but rest assured, your beliefs are just as offensive to us." I have never been offended by an atheist -- saddened but not offended. I wonder why Christianity is such an offense to you and seems to bring out such vehemence from many who do not believe? If you really believe there is nothing there, why do you (generic atheist you) fight against it so hard? Seems like a big waste of your time or a bit of proof that there is something within your soul that you are rebelling against... For now I can walk upright while you still crawl on all fours. Yea, until you get tazed for back talking Uh yeah, we Christians are issued tazers right after baptism -- Watch Out!!! I was referring to gentlemanjim, ya goober. I know. Just thought with that silly freedom of speech thing I could jump in --mea culpa... Edited January 11, 2015 by Odd Man Out Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I wonder if that is part of the 72 Virgins reward they spew about... ; ) Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I hear mo is into some kinky shit. Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 There is nothing wrong with Christianity, it is the Christians that are the problem. Every preacher thinks HE speaks for God, none do. If you think that Christians do not force their bullshit on everyone else, then why can't you sell whiskey on Sunday? Why do you try to use the law to prevent a woman from getting an abortion when she is raped? These are NOT the teachings of Christ, but the ramblings of men who invoke the name of God in their own vanity. Christians have at least 3 Popes, and thousands of 'preachers' that all claim to speak for the same God. Somebody is lying (they are easy to find, by Christs teachings they do not own the clothes on their back, if they do they do not 'get it'). Islam is many times WORSE - Mohamed had no male heirs, so every goat fucker that claims to be descended from his uncle or brother-in-law wears a black turban and claims to speak for god, when they only speak words of their own vanity. There is NO monolithic Christianity,or Islam or any other religion with more than 1 leader or sect.(And those are called cults. Do not drink the kool-aid!) I learned this years ago. My mother tried to make me Catholic, I had to go to the church and school. There was NO God there, it was an EVIL place of abuse and torture. About 3rd grade I started skipping out of that church and going to services in other denominations. Some were cold heartless places, and some were welcoming retreats that felt like a warm hug. God is NOT in any church or religion - God is in the goodwill and fellowship of the congregation. "where ever 2 or more of you are gathered in my name". Not where a bunch of asshats gather to sanctimoniously out religion each other. In suburban MD there is a church run by an excommunicated Catholic Priest. It is in an old elementary school. There are rooms with clothing, and appliances and food. He 'gets it'. The man owns NOTHING. He shepherds his flock and is adamant that the building is NOT his church, the congregation is the Church, and he is the pastor. The welfare of the congregation is his only job. The world needs more like him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
David Mark 2,452 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Prove to me God exists. and best of luck with that one. As someone who plants a vegetable garden from seed each spring I will tell you that God exists. To watch a small dark grain of sand (seed) turn into a giant broccoli plant in a matter of weeks proves to me that a higher power beyond our ability to fully comprehend exists. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Prove to me God exists. and best of luck with that one. As someone who plants a vegetable garden from seed each spring I will tell you that God exists. To watch a small dark grain of sand (seed) turn into a giant broccoli plant in a matter of weeks proves to me that a higher power beyond our ability to fully comprehend exists. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary. So your God is the Sun, I can respect that, at least it is something that is real. Not some made up fictitious entity that can't be proven. Edited January 12, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Link to post Share on other sites
David Mark 2,452 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Prove to me God exists. and best of luck with that one. As someone who plants a vegetable garden from seed each spring I will tell you that God exists. To watch a small dark grain of sand (seed) turn into a giant broccoli plant in a matter of weeks proves to me that a higher power beyond our ability to fully comprehend exists. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary. So your God is the Sun, I can respect that, at least it is something that is real. Not some made up fictitious entity that can't be proven. Ahh, but from whence came the Sun? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 casting pearls among the swine...in this case trolls 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Wow. Interesting guys!!!! Here's my thoughts.... I have never met an atheist, I have met a lot of people really pissed off at god, who decided like a chick, to do the "cold shoulder treatment." It's kinda a bitch move tho. Just saying. You people are talking about religions not god. So make sure you clearly seperate the two. According to the bible(if you choose to read it)Jesus was maliciously entrapped,and wrongly murdered by who.....? Ohhh that's right. the religious leaders of the day. He came unfucking glued about the slime that traded money and power in his fathers name. Hmmmmm. Yep still done today. Soo arguing religion IS retarded. Cuz religion is people worshiping there rituals. Guess what, people corrupt everthing. Do you hate the USA or just what the slime has done to it? Do you hate the good news, or just what the slime has done to it???? Be careful not to destroy the truth when you burn all the lies. But I still will lite the fire right beside you. Jesus hung out with sailor and hookers and the like, not hugely popular. Blah blah. Read about it if you care. There's more real life murder, betrayal, sex, corruption in the bible than any other book. Because it's about people and it's true, and people are slime. It ain't about BEING good, it's about DOING good. End of the that. So who wants to know why the east hates us soo bad??? The reasons change but the hate stays the same. I have the answer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Simple; Luke 12:51... God's truth is a sword which divides truth from falsity, right from wrong, good from evil, and much else. It confronts us and requires us to make decisions. The way we make those decisions can divide us. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That fact that there is a creator is irrefutable. Science is a religion that seeks out to prove that there is no God. It takes more faith to believe that a billions of perfectly aligned miracles miraculously aligned and formed a perfectly balanced, and intelegent, self healing, self sustaining, ecosystem. Come on, seriously????!!! I was a bio-chem major in college. I dropped out of the university because when I got to the graduate level courses, they said there was three inconclusive theories, you could choose which one you wanted to believe. Truth is the more science claims to have it "this time" they are proven full of shit only years later. It's funny to me no matter the macro or micro scale, no matter the extremely bad ass equipment and tools the create, at every discovery it is infinitely more majestic and eluding. The creator just sits back and say keeping looking fuckers, I ain't even started yet. We will never get to the "bottom of it" it's a joke on humans and our little minds, yet we love to tout and worship are feeble discoveries. It's fucking hilarious!!! The op sited the Middle East hatred of "us" let's get back on topic! Hehe 1 Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 How arrogant is man to think he and he alone is the greatest being in all of eternity . it boggles the mind Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 That fact that there is a creator is irrefutable. Science is a religion that seeks out to prove that there is no God. It takes more faith to believe that a billions of perfectly aligned miracles miraculously aligned and formed a perfectly balanced, and intelegent, self healing, self sustaining, ecosystem. Come on, seriously????!!! I was a bio-chem major in college. I dropped out of the university because when I got to the graduate level courses, they said there was three inconclusive theories, you could choose which one you wanted to believe. Truth is the more science claims to have it "this time" they are proven full of shit only years later. It's funny to me no matter the macro or micro scale, no matter the extremely bad ass equipment and tools the create, at every discovery it is infinitely more majestic and eluding. The creator just sits back and say keeping looking fuckers, I ain't even started yet. We will never get to the "bottom of it" it's a joke on humans and our little minds, yet we love to tout and worship are feeble discoveries. It's fucking hilarious!!! The op sited the Middle East hatred of "us" let's get back on topic! Hehe There is no irrefutable evidence for your god or any others. There is no evidence that people will ever completely understand the origins of this universe, or life in it. So likewise, the two do not coincide in any way. Nothing in the bible has ever led to scientific breakthroughs (though many have been detriments to scientific progress), and no scientific discoveries have ever proven the fantastic stories of the bible. Incredible claims NEED incredible evidence for rational people to believe them. To your prior post ( I have never met an atheist, I have met a lot of people really pissed off at god, who decided like a chick, to do the "cold shoulder treatment." It's kinda a bitch move tho. Just saying.) There may actually be more people who are atheist for gods inaction or gods supposed intentional complacency than for the correct reasons. Reason being, people are really fucking stupid. It takes an intelligent person to care about reality and apply realistic principles to EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE they collect during their lives. Those who dont do that are atheists for the wrong reasons. I am not one of those people. To be an atheist in america takes bravery, much more so than to succumb to the majority's influence. People are christians for the same reasons they are atheists, because they truly dont understand the world around them, have life long preconceived notions, or are too lazy/ dumb to find their own evidence. People typically apply their own reflection of their family and community, or their individual wishes not to conform, when labeling themselves a certain way (ie you fit in and are loved by family= 99% chance of local religion, when you hate your community and family=potential dumdum atheist). Fact is, its much easier to say religion is factually correct, since most people will believe you without question. Scientific discoveries will always be wayyyy behind religious claims. Why? Because religion declares the final answer while science is honest enough to admit we dont know everything. Every new scientific discovery poses another mystery, instead of artificially claiming the answer before the experiment is conducted. Religion applies old myths to new science and seems relevant, meanwhile they have been doing the same since doctors where bleeding people to draw the demons out and thought natural events were 'when god gets pissed'. Science has given modern christianity the credibility to survive, not the other way around. If this wasnt the case, all christians would be as ass backwards as middle eastern muslims, who really do still live in the stone age. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 μη δωτε το αγιον τοις κυσιν μηδε βαλητε τους μαργαριτας υμων εμπροσθεν των χοιρων μηποτε καταπατησουσιν αυτους εν τοις ποσιν αυτων και στραφεντες ρηξωσιν υμας For the ones that can read or translate Koine Greek Link to post Share on other sites
Wagnikov 186 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 With regards to religion, I agree. I asked to not confuse a creator and religions. I chose to disagree based on the facts that have happened to me, in my life. Real shit. Lol so yes are there heards of mindless idiots on all sides yep. I have challenged all the same issues you have challenged. Though my expirence lead me to a different conclusion. The biggest mistake anyone can make is to expect someone else to live according tho there OWN beliefs. This fictional guy named Jesus, son of god(however that's works) came to die, in our place. With all power and authority, yet died a criminals death in our place. And that part of the story is fantastically amazing. Even raising from the dead and conquering death. But you know what, in all that. He did something of even greater courage and ultimately love. He gave us a CHOICE. So who the fuck are we. to take that away. You can't make someone love you. So the intent was clearly laid out, hes not after your money, or submission, or to make you feel like a big piece of shit,. He wants real relationship with his kids. Exactly like a father. I make make my kids mind, but I can't make them have fun hanging out with me. Christianity IS different than any religion that has ever exsisted. When you die in every other religion, when you die. There is a giant set of scales. So the question comes down to does the good you did outweigh the bad. But Jesus (just like tooth fairy, or Santa Claus) said hey that ones mine! I put it on MY tab. That's the good news. Cuz ya see, we are all slime. An we never stood a chance any other way. So believe what you will. I'm a big pos, and screw up everything good in my life, if left to my own devices. But I got a dude, badder than any mofia boss, oh yeah he made EVERYTHING, and he said I got your back. And he's wants nothjng more than to connect with his children. Like a parent whoes child has gone missing. Read the book. That's his heart, that's how god works. I know him. I embarrass him a lot when I say that cuz I fail everyday. Lol so. Are we gonna get back to the Muslim hatred already. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 How arrogant is man to think he and he alone is the greatest being in all of eternity . it boggles the mind Well you would know Mr. Pompous. Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Once again I ask…..If man killed the son of God, Why was mankind not wiped clean by this almighty God.? Seeing that he is all powerful and all. Seems to me that killing his son would be the greatest show of disrespect imaginable. And I'm sure every Christian will avoid this question once again. Edited January 13, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 God sent his only begotten son to die for our sins, so we may have salvation. too complex a thought for a selfish man to comprehend Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 You poor little petty man. I tire of your insults and infantile provocations Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Now your starting to understand how I feel, I think we are getting somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do believe it is better to just drive over this bridge rather than stopping on it as we've been doing and trying to have a conversation. My reasoning is covered succinctly in the Bible: Matthew 7:6 The resident's beneath will never understand. I take that back, they will one day, sadly... Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Once again I ask…..If man killed the son of God, Why was mankind not wiped clean by this almighty God.? Seeing that he is all powerful and all. Seems to me that killing his son would be the greatest show of disrespect imaginable. And I'm sure every Christian will avoid this question once again. I'll be your huckleberry... Your question is grounded in your limitations. The only thing you -- fallen sinful man (like myself and all others) can comprehend is revenge for a death of a loved one but what if (don't expect you to understand -- again limitations) it took the death of that person to save many others that you loved. The death of one Man (albeit spectacularly singular) saved millions and continues to save as you read this. Yup the killing of Jesus was a tad disrespectful but (Thank and Praise God!) it was all part of His plan. Shotty, I have left you behind -- I really am not writing to you but rather am using you to proselytize (look it up...) to anyone who stumbles upon this in the future. Whether you know it or not God has used you to get His Message out. Without your continued whining I would not be able to write what I have written. Thank you brother! This fictional guy named Jesus, son of god(however that's works) came to die, in our place. Fixed it for you... Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUN MESIAH 855 Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Even the bible's own prophets claim believers of the written word believe in written lies that can do no good! The prophet also claims the OT scriptures given as law to Moses, are lies. (Jer 7:8) Behold, you trust in lying words that cannot do any good. Jer 8:8) How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah is with us? Lo, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has written falsely. Those verses are from the OT prophet Jeremiah who knew that the Laws were BS lies. Even their own prophet shows the bible is not true. Edited January 13, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH Link to post Share on other sites
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