Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Has anyone that shoots the MKA 1919 in competition mounted one of these on their gun? Where did you mount it? (I'm thinking on the handguard.) Is it worth the effort? MatchSaverZ - http://www.matchsaverz.com/Matchsaverz/Home.html or Carbon Arms One Shot Shell Holder - http://www.carbonarms.us/Shotgun-Accessories/One-Shot-Shell-Holder.html Edited January 27, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Maybe I'm missing something , it has been a long day But how are you planning on using it? If you have LRBHO you can't just drop it in the chamber and hit the bolt release. If you don't have, a mag change would be as fast or faster. With a 23 rnd mag or two, or even a 10 rnd, most stages with that high a round count have a convenient break for a mag change. Edited January 27, 2015 by toothandnail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just trying to think out of the box, A local club does not allow us to load slugs and birdshot in the same magazine. The same rule applies to folks with tube guns. Sometimes the last target on a stage requires a slug. My thought is burn the last round or so of birdshot and on LRBHO pop in a slug for that last target. My MKA 1919 uses a C-More that is mounted further forward than most and in playing around I've found I can drop in a round with my left hand over the top of the gun and hit the bolt stop with my left thumb Now I'm looking for a way to get the slug into my left hand a little faster. I do have a titanium firing pin and so far have not had problems with slam fire. If its a bad idea, that's OK. Like I said, I'm just trying to think out of the box. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Interesting. . . . . . . I haven't tried on other guns, but I don't think I can push hard enough on the bolt release to over come the resistance from the mag. I may need to try harder, if you can on yours, I don't see why that wouldn't work, especially with your club rules. We've never seen a slam fire either, factory pin and spring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I did try it today on several MKA's , no way i could get the bolt released how you described, it did work OK smacking it with my palm. Not enough time difference between that and a mag change, added benefit of a mag change is the availability of more than 1 shell. I think if I could release with my thumb it would be pretty quick, interesting idea though, keep trying stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 After I saw your post this morning I pulled my spare (100% factory) MKA 1919 out of the gun safe and tried the technique and you are right. On that gun its hard to get the bolt to release with a magazine installed. On my match gun, I'm able to get it to drop with not much effort at all. More effort than dropping the bolt on an AR, but not enough to make it seem like I'm pushing it all that hard. The magazines that I'm using in this experiment are factory 10 rd. The match gun has a aluminum lower and is very well broke in (over 3,000 rds). When I installed the new lower I had to dress inside the upper with a small file to get the bolt release to work. I don't see how that would affect it, but maybe? Both guns are pre-XN. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think I'll stick with more practice and less gimmicks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Yeh, but what if you practice the gimmicks? Edited January 28, 2015 by Flatland Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Odd that the majority of top shooters have those 'gimmicks' on their SG. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ToysRUs 8 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I have all the bolt hold open latches removed from my mags. I'd have to left side charge it open then drop in the round. There is a reason you will always see me with an extra 5 or 10 rounder hanging from my belt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Odd that the majority of top shooters have those 'gimmicks' on their SG. ...anything to win. Even marginally legal modifications, like removing the slide lock on pump shotguns. I've seen it. Unsafe as hell, but boy, was he fast! Winning is ALL to some. Spend THOUSANDS to win a piece of paper that says "I won!". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toothandnail 275 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'd like to know how a match saver is cheating? or unsafe? What about a lightened slide on a pistol, bolt on a rifle? Would sights or optic on a 45* mount beside the scope be cheating as well? Just wondering where you stand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I stand behind my sights. We're going off topic. This thread isn't about me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I stand behind my sights. We're going off topic. This thread isn't about me. Some people train hard every day to shoot at their very best. Superior equipment is a must at the top tier where a fraction of a second may mean first or tenth place. unsafe firearms are not allowed, and the mod you suggested is never done in our sport, and only allows unskilled people to shoot the gun faster. People who train with pumps can shoot them just as fast.....and actually hit the target.. Winning a major match usually results in several thousand dollars worth of prizes , no piece of paper....but you may get a trophy as well. Bad mouthing people you know nothing about, and a sport you know nothing about is just silly. Most regular folks, even those who believe they are skilled in firearms, would find it very difficult to place above 25 percent in a real 3gun match 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Odd that the majority of top shooters have those 'gimmicks' on their SG. ...anything to win. Even marginally legal modifications, like removing the slide lock on pump shotguns. I've seen it. Unsafe as hell, but boy, was he fast! Winning is ALL to some. Spend THOUSANDS to win a piece of paper that says "I won!". ...anything to win. And what's wrong with that? You compete to lose? Even marginally legal modifications..... Depending on the rules (or for some matches, lack of rules) its either legal or not. If you don't like it, either avoid it or get involved. Make a difference to the sport. Unsafe as hell.... The rules do cover that. If its unsafe, it not welcomed. You say you've seen it. And what did you do about it? Did you point it out to a range officer or match official? I've taken the time and effort to get CRO (USPSA) certified. I work matches and I try to have a good handle on the rules. On my stages, unsafe is not tolerated. If a competitor takes me aside and says someone's equipment is unsafe, I look into it. Spend THOUSANDS to win a piece of paper that says "I won!".... I wish. If 2015 is anything like 2014, I will spend thousands of dollars for equipment, ammo, match fees and everything else it takes to compete. The bad news (at least for me) is I'll be 63 on my next birthday. I will not win the match, But I will have the satisfaction that I made the effort to do my best. Nuff said. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Just trying to think out of the box, A local club does not allow us to load slugs and birdshot in the same magazine. The same rule applies to folks with tube guns. Sometimes the last target on a stage requires a slug. My thought is burn the last round or so of birdshot and on LRBHO pop in a slug for that last target. My MKA 1919 uses a C-More that is mounted further forward than most and in playing around I've found I can drop in a round with my left hand over the top of the gun and hit the bolt stop with my left thumb Now I'm looking for a way to get the slug into my left hand a little faster. I do have a titanium firing pin and so far have not had problems with slam fire. If its a bad idea, that's OK. Like I said, I'm just trying to think out of the box. Bill Seems like a reload from a coupled mag, or even from your belt, to a closed bolt would be faster and less fumble prone. Then simply burn the bird shot after the reload. At least thats how I would do it if I wasnt allowed to mix shot and slugs in my mags. Edited January 30, 2015 by gose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Seems like a reload from a coupled mag, or even from your belt, to a closed bolt would be faster and less fumble prone. Then simply burn the bird shot after the reload. At least thats how I would do it if I wasnt allowed to mix shot and slugs in my mags. I spent a couple of days at the range this week and had time to play with this a bit. (Its nice to be retired.) Some of the things I've found (and it may possibly be just me) is that I can reload a smaller magazine from the belt faster than a larger magazine. I was using 10 rd, 15 rd and 18 rd magazines for comparison. I also found that loading a single round and dropping the bolt was much faster than reloading with a 10 rd magazine. In this test I held a single shell in my left hand with the primer end of the shell towards the muzzle. When the last shot from the magazine held the bolt open, I brought my left hand back from the handguard and reached over the top of the gun and popped the single round into the gun and hit the bolt release with my left thumb. Rather than hold the single round in my hand, I'm trying to find a way for it to be mounted on the gun and easily accessible. Here is where the MatchSaverZ may or may not come in handy. And unlike the tube guns with the MatchSaverZ mounted ahead of the ejection port on the right side of the gun, I'm looking at mounting one on the handguard either on the left side or below the gun. At the current time, only my 5 rd and 10 rd magazines are still set up to hold the bolt open on the last round. My 15 rd and 18 rd magazines are what I use most of the time in matches and I have this disabled because of past problems inserting the magazine too far into the gun with the bolt locked back. Its still a work in progress. And as long as it seems promising, I will continue to work on it. I was just curious if anyone had already discovered and fine tuned the technique. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) What are the times youre seeing? A reload from the belt should fairly comfortable be under 2s, and a tad faster loading from a coupled mag, all shot to shot. A little warmed up and reloads from the belt should be ~1.5s and even a tad faster from coupled mags. Personally, I dont think I could do the single shell from a match saver under 1s, leaving me with at most a couple of tenths gain, but with a higher fumble factor and the potential for missing the target and going empty. But thats the good thing about practice and testing, figuring out what works for you Edited January 30, 2015 by gose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Odd that the majority of top shooters have those 'gimmicks' on their SG. ...anything to win. Even marginally legal modifications, like removing the slide lock on pump shotguns. I've seen it. Unsafe as hell, but boy, was he fast! Winning is ALL to some. Spend THOUSANDS to win a piece of paper that says "I won!". ...anything to win. And what's wrong with that? You compete to lose? ANYTHING as in rules be damned. Even marginally legal modifications..... Depending on the rules (or for some matches, lack of rules) its either legal or not. If you don't like it, either avoid it or get involved. Make a difference to the sport. I'm on the Board.. Is that INVOLVED enough for ya? Unsafe as hell.... The rules do cover that. If its unsafe, it not welcomed. You say you've seen it. And what did you do about it? Did you point it out to a range officer or match official? YES...and that clown doesn't shoot at our range anymore. I've taken the time and effort to get CRO (USPSA) certified. I am a qualified SASS range officer. I work matches and I try to have a good handle on the rules. Me too, Since we started over 20 years ago. On my stages, unsafe is not tolerated.Bingo. If a competitor takes me aside and says someone's equipment is unsafe, I look into it. I should hope so... Spend THOUSANDS to win a piece of paper that says "I won!".... I wish. If 2015 is anything like 2014, I will spend thousands of dollars for equipment, ammo, match fees and everything else it takes to compete. The bad news (at least for me) is I'll be 63 on my next birthday. I will not win the match, But I will have the satisfaction that I made the effort to do my best. Agreed. Winning isn't everything BTDT. It's nice sometimes though. Now I go just for the fun and camraderie. Sometimes I win a stage or two. My main goal is to hit every target 1st time, every time, and have fun doing it. Our main RSO has started our matches by saying "If you've come here to have fun...WELCOME! If you've come here just to get a piece of paper that says "I win"...step up and we'll give you one and save you some time. People forget about the fun they can have. That's the point. Nuff said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 You have more talent than me. My reloads with the 10 rd magazine are consistent at 2.25 seconds. My one shell reloads save me close to 3/4 of a second. (I did have one under a second but I don't think that will ever happen in a match.) The fumbles with the one shot reload are a result of dropping or movement of the shell on recoil. That's something that mounting the round to the gun would eliminate. On the magazine reloads, I'm still trying to find what really works for me. I've tried on the belt with shells up and with shells down. I've even experimented with a magazine hung from my belt on my strong side. I need to get used to coupled magazines before the 3GN SW Regional in March. (A long shotgun stage is expected.) Not many around here shoot open with box fed shotguns so not a lot of better shooters for me to watch. Likewise with YouTube, there are a few videos where I can see what others are doing. Agreed. Winning isn't everything BTDT. It's nice sometimes though. Now I go just for the fun and camraderie. Sometimes I win a stage or two. My main goal is to hit every target 1st time, every time, and have fun doing it. Our main RSO has started our matches by saying "If you've come here to have fun...WELCOME! If you've come here just to get a piece of paper that says "I win"...step up and we'll give you one and save you some time. People forget about the fun they can have. That's the point. We are in full agreement. (But not sure what BTDT means) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Been There Done That. I was one of the fastest shotgunners in my area for awhile, then winning got boring, so I switched to black powder and I'm havin' a BLAST! Literally! This is me in 2013. The blast is big enough to hit you in the chest anywhere on the stage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) On the magazine reloads, I'm still trying to find what really works for me. I've tried on the belt with shells up and with shells down. I've even experimented with a magazine hung from my belt on my strong side. I need to get used to coupled magazines before the 3GN SW Regional in March. (A long shotgun stage is expected.) 2.25 seems like there's some room for improvement. Fastest for me, in order of speed. Coupled mags 5 round mag, shells down in M1a holder on belt. 10 round mags from belt (simple bent kydex hook, glued/taped to mag), shells up 15/18 round mags from belt, shells up Edited January 30, 2015 by gose Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tmc 3 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I used to run a rem 1100 and I would use a safariland 2 shell holder on my belt for the oh shit load this may work for you if you wear it on the left side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is me in 2013. The blast is big enough to hit you in the chest anywhere on the stage. I guess I need to save up for one of those flame throwers. SASS is getting real popular in our area. I need to go by one of their matches someday. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 On the magazine reloads, I'm still trying to find what really works for me. I've tried on the belt with shells up and with shells down. I've even experimented with a magazine hung from my belt on my strong side. I need to get used to coupled magazines before the 3GN SW Regional in March. (A long shotgun stage is expected.) 2.25 seems like there's some room for improvement. What can I say? I'm one of those don't try to chew gum and walk kind of guys. I used to run a rem 1100 and I would use a safariland 2 shell holder on my belt for the oh shit load this may work for you if you wear it on the left side That was one consideration but if I'm going all the way down to my belt, I'ii probably do just as well going for a magazine. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gose 17 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 2.25 seems like there's some room for improvement. What can I say? I'm one of those don't try to chew gum and walk kind of guys. That probably came out more arrogant than I intended. My point was that you should be able to get your reload times down quite a bit, reducing the need (and risk) to come up with an alternate solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 2.25 seems like there's some room for improvement. What can I say? I'm one of those don't try to chew gum and walk kind of guys. That probably came out more arrogant than I intended. My point was that you should be able to get your reload times down quite a bit, reducing the need (and risk) to come up with an alternate solution. Not arrogant at all. I agree and that's why I've been practicing with my shotgun a lot. Pistol reloads are great but reloads with both AR and MKA magazines just feel clumsy no matter how much I practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 This is me in 2013. The blast is big enough to hit you in the chest anywhere on the stage. I guess I need to save up for one of those flame throwers. SASS is getting real popular in our area. I need to go by one of their matches someday. It's a special load...Not just black powder. My own creation. Fuel/air burst in front of the muzzle. The concussion is AMAZING! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigblock455 1 Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Bill, sorry I came to the party late. I've never tried a match saver on my 1919. For the scenario you describe it seems a 10, 15, 17 or 23 rounder with a coupler mounted 5 rounder with slugs mounted to it would work slick? Shoot you BS and then release mag move over re-insert. The benefit for me would be 5 rounds over 1. Edited April 9, 2015 by bigblock455 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flatland Shooter 22 Posted April 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 For the scenario you describe it seems a 10, 15, 17 or 23 rounder with a coupler mounted 5 rounder with slugs mounted to it would work slick? I had not considered that but it is a good idea. My only coupled set is a pair of 15 rd magazines. Adding a 5 rd magazine is not much weight and might work nicely. Finally found a use for that stack of 5 rd mags sitting in the corner. Thanks. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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