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Trouble sighting Saiga 7.62


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I bought it used and have had it to the range the last few weeks trying to sight it with iron sights.  It looks like it was aligned before the final paint (no marks on FSB and uncentered).  

 

It started off shooting about 24" to the right with very light wind on 50 yd range.  After pegging the sight all the way to the right, I am still shooting 12" to the right.  Could there be something else wrong (FSB, brake, shooter error - I could zero my M&P 15-22 in just a few shots using sights and red dot)?  It was originally built by Cobra's Custom.  So I'm thinking it has to be something added after the build.

 

Currently using surplus Wolf and WPA ammo (FMJ and JHP).  I'm not worried about grouping yet, just trying to zero.  I'm nearly about to give up on the irons and go with a scope and side mount.  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  FSB appears to be canted, but pinned.

 

 

20150128_180123.jpg

 

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Your front sight base is way off.  Someone has removed it, probably when the removed the gas block to put a standard handguard retainer on it.  Then they refinished the barrel.  There are two ways to fix it:

 

One:  (the best way) reset the FSB, or better yet, replace it with a 24mm one, so you can use a real AK74/103 type break instead of the Tapco one that is on it.

 

http://rifledynamics.com/products/bulgarian-ak-front-sight-base-assembly-24mm-thread

 

Two: (easiest way) replace the rear sight with an RPK type adjustable rear sight, that actually can be adjusted for windage.  This will allow you to finish adjusting it to zero.

 

http://www.northridgeinc.com/store/index.cfm/c119/i685

or

http://www.russiansurplus.net/product_p/rpk-r-sight.htm

Edited by imarangemaster
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Drive out the pins on the bottom of the FSB.  To straighten it out, start by drawing a pencil tine on the top center of the barrel and a pencil mark on the top center of the FSB. Put the gas block area in a padded vise, then using a padded pipe wrench, twist the FSB until the mark on the rear top center of the FSB is centered on the lie from the rear sight on top of the barrel.  An old leather belt works great for padding the wrench and the vise for the FSB.  Then take a drill with a new, sharp drill bit the size of the pin holes and  drill through, catching the bottom of the barrel.  If you want to be really secure, and can get the FSB off, fill the old grooves on the barrel with JB weld and let cure for two days, then file/sand smooth before re-installing the FSB and re drilling.  DON'T HURRY!

Edited by imarangemaster
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Pins and FSB came right off, no problems.  Now just to decide if I try to fix this one, or invest in a new FSB and break.  We'll see.  Not going to get to the range anytime soon - 20's for highs next week.

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Since it came off so easy, you might think of using this FSB:

 

http://blackthorneproducts.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=52

 

Once you center it, you use a set screw in the bottom to set it.  If you line it up, take out the set screw and drill a divot in the barrel for it to set in through the hole, then re-install the set screw with lock tight, it will never move.  I have done 2 Saiga's with them  Reuse your front sight and drum, and I think you can take the spring and pin out of your FSB also.

 

DSC03745-1.jpg

 

Saiga5.jpg

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I put a Bulgarian FSB on one, a Venom FSB/GB combo on another.

 

Both easy to install. 

 

For centering, set the receiver on a level table/bench/counter, and get two carpenter's squares (or anything straight), and stand them on both sides of the FSB. You'll be able to tell with ease how centered it is. 

 

Then, you'll probably need to drill new grooves (since yours are likely canted), so a 1/8" bit will do. After that, either buy 1/8" pins, or take some 1/8" drill stock, cut it to length, and heat treat it (place on magnet, hold blow torch to it until it falls off the magnet and have it land in water). That's the process I have always used to fix/install FSB's (I did buy pins until I saw Jim Fuller's video on how to make your own, which is how I do it now), and it's worked fantastically. 

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I was getting about 5" grouping, wasn't really trying hard, just trying to zero. Aiming at open air to hit paper is tough to be consistent. No copper in break, waiting on a mag laser sight to come in before I head back to the range. Maybe I just suck at aiming. We'll see

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Used the mag sight tool. Barrel is spot on with FSB but no brake. Put the brake on and it sights to the lower right, just where I was grouping. A closer look reveals small orange lines on the inside of the brake near the end. I bet the bullet is grazing the inside and deflecting. I'll try a new brake.

Edited by Sneak
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Used the mag sight tool. Barrel is spot on with FSB but no brake. Put the brake on and it sights to the lower right, just where I was grouping. A closer look reveals small orange lines on the inside of the brake near the end. I bet the bullet is grazing the inside and deflecting. I'll try a new brake.

 

You may have stated, but is the brake soldered on or threaded?

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Threaded. I purchased a cheap slant brake from Amazon. Then I'll find out if it's the brake, or the FSB threads. What's odd is that the underside of the FSB has been cut along the entire length, and poorly rejoined. Not sure why or if that caused damage. I'll repost in a few days.

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There is a small outfit that makes a "Tactical Tri-Delta" muzzle brake.  About the size of an A2 flash hider.  It comes in 14x1mmL, for 7.62x39 cal, 1/2x28 for 223, and 5/8x24 for 300 BLK and 7.62x51 Nato.  I used one on a 300BLK M4gery and it works awesome!  I have the 14x1L version on my threaded Saiga barrel. I am also have the 223 version for my 5.56 KISS Carbine build. The14x1mm L,  1/2x28 5.56 and .308 58/24 versions are all  $38.50  They work awesome...


 


https://www.custommuzzlebrakes.com/#!/Tactical-TriDelta-Muzzle-Brake/p/11810478/category=2932347


PS:  It is American made and counts as 1 922R US made part.


Edited by imarangemaster
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Used the mag sight tool. Barrel is spot on with FSB but no brake. Put the brake on and it sights to the lower right, just where I was grouping. A closer look reveals small orange lines on the inside of the brake near the end. I bet the bullet is grazing the inside and deflecting. I'll try a new brake.

 

Yup, now you just need to find out if the threads on the brake are crooked, or if the threads on the gun are crooked.

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Used the mag sight tool. Barrel is spot on with FSB but no brake. Put the brake on and it sights to the lower right, just where I was grouping. A closer look reveals small orange lines on the inside of the brake near the end. I bet the bullet is grazing the inside and deflecting. I'll try a new brake.

 

Yup, now you just need to find out if the threads on the brake are crooked, or if the threads on the gun are crooked.

 

Yeah, I'm hoping it's just the brake threads and not the FSB threads.

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FSB threads? Isn't that a 14x1LH brake? It should be the barrel that's threaded for that size.

 

If the problem is the barrel threads, there are several ways to get around it, the slant brake you ordered is one of them, it's too short, and too loose (at least where the bullet passes through) for crooked threads to matter very much.

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There is a small outfit that makes a "Tactical Tri-Delta" muzzle brake.  About the size of an A2 flash hider.  It comes in 14x1mmL, for 7.62x39 cal, 1/2x28 for 223, and 5/8x24 for 300 BLK and 7.62x51 Nato.  I used one on a 300BLK M4gery and it works awesome!  I have the 14x1L version on my threaded Saiga barrel. I am also have the 223 version for my 5.56 KISS Carbine build. The14x1mm L,  1/2x28 5.56 and .308 58/24 versions are all  $38.50  They work awesome...

 

https://www.custommuzzlebrakes.com/#!/Tactical-TriDelta-Muzzle-Brake/p/11810478/category=2932347

PS:  It is American made and counts as 1 922R US made part.

 

 

Thanks for posting this. I have been shopping around and looking at various brakes. My VEPR .308 has 14x1 LH threaded barrel. Maybe a dumb question, but the x39 brake will work on the 308 correct? I have two Bulgy 74 brakes on my Saiga x39's, and I had to drill them out to .400 for clearance. Just wondering...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally got a slant break in.  Bore sight's fine.  The threads on the other break were bad (IDK somehow).  But the barrel threads are too long and it doesn't hit the detent pin.  Looking into a spacer or locking washer now.  Looking better though.

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