Sim_Player 1,939 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Lot's of links online. Here is one from a network that is not conservative. I could not believe that they ran this. http://m.bbc.com/news/business-23151813 Edited February 8, 2015 by Sim_Player Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sobrenegade 795 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 We had gas here in Topeka two weeks ago at $1.66 a gallon. Yesterday it was back up at $1.95. Will our energy independence keep this stabilized somehow? Just like Chelsea Clinton for president, pure speculation. My breakfast buddy said it was because of an oil workers strike closing some production facilities. I wish when I decided to slow down doing my work the boss would raise my pay rate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't know exactly why gas prices are so volatile right now - OPEC is doing some weird shit, and US oil companies are no doubt doing their own weird shit in return. Shale oil and gas are expensive to produce - if importing oil is cheaper than producing it domestically, shale oil extraction becomes a less attractive option and US shale oil producers can't compete. The only reason US companies started developing new technology to extract gas and oil from shale was the massive increase in international oil prices over the last decade and change. Shale oil and gas didn't look like a profitable venture when oil was dirt cheap.Because of our ever-increasing demand for energy, I don't see the US becoming energy independent any time soon unless it is forced to - some international incident that results in some or all OPEC countries embargo the US (super unlikely, shooting themselves in the foot like that), or an international war that makes oil transportation by sea impossible. Since either of those things are highly unlikely - we'll probably keep increasing our demands for energy faster than we increase our production of energy sources.If we got our heads out of our asses and spent real money developing new safer, cleaner nuclear tech, we could probably be a net exporter of cheap electrical energy to Canada and Central America inside 20 years. Since we're still using light water reactors that haven't materially changed in function since the 1950's while other nations with a heavy balance of nuclear power have shifted to designs that produce much less high-level radioactive waste... I don't see that happening. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Unions on strike shutting some refinerys 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The primary reason for the latest drop in oil prices was OPEC over producing. They have done a very good job of regulating production to keep prices high. As prices have remained high, American companies have increased development of lower yield sources such as oil shale. $100/barrel oil makes these operations profitable, $50/barrel oil does not. This coupled with the Keystone pipeline finally getting some traction after 6 years with the new congress, drove OPEC led by the Saudis, to increase production to purposely drive the price of oil down to take some of the steam out of America's recent gains. They are not our so called ally, make no mistake. I also find it incredulous that the media's general slant has been that falling oil and prices at the pump are a bad thing, and will hurt the economy and the "green revolution". Where have all the stories been over the past six years about "grandma having to choose between medicine and filling her tank" that were so prevalent post Katrina when Bush was in office? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The primary reason for the latest drop in oil prices was OPEC over producing. They have done a very good job of regulating production to keep prices high. As prices have remained high, American companies have increased development of lower yield sources such as oil shale. $100/barrel oil makes these operations profitable, $50/barrel oil does not. This coupled with the Keystone pipeline finally getting some traction after 6 years with the new congress, drove OPEC led by the Saudis, to increase production to purposely drive the price of oil down to take some of the steam out of America's recent gains. They are not our so called ally, make no mistake. I also find it incredulous that the media's general slant has been that falling oil and prices at the pump are a bad thing, and will hurt the economy and the "green revolution". Where have all the stories been over the past six years about "grandma having to choose between medicine and filling her tank" that were so prevalent post Katrina when Bush was in office? The media relies on a negative spin - since there are ALWAYS negative aspects to dwell on, there will always be news like that. Whenever the price of a commodity changes, some people and ideas benefit, and some suffer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NM0 586 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 (edited) Low gas prices (although up 20 cents in two days) are going to hurt some people here. Oil and gas revenues are a large factor in the state funding formula. Education will be one of the hardest hit with upcoming budget adjustments. Legislation is still in, so facts are still out. It was just starting feel like the 08 recession was in the past at my school. This time around is going to be rough since enrollment is going down too. There is always some "reason" every 3 to 5 years that causes us to take an economic hit here in my trade. Makes you wonder how we can retain good teachers. Also explains some of the other teachers and administrators actions. Edited February 8, 2015 by NM0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atomic Punk 25 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 The latest bump in price is because of the new Saudi king. The old king wanted to keep production levels at the same level to maintain market share (with a nice side effect of hurting Iran, Russia and US shale producers) but the new king MAY decrease production and allow prices to rise. I don't think he's actually stated that but it's speculation and that is enough to drive futures, and prices, up in the short term. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted February 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I believe It's the speculators watching the markets that are driving the price up. The UAE is still producing at previous levels. China's economy is also slowing down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I believe It's the speculators watching the markets that are driving the price up. The UAE is still producing at previous levels. China's economy is also slowing down. Oil field job cuts along with striking workers is what's driving prices up. OPEC dropped the prices so low oil rigs across the country can't compete. Once the rigs are capped and the work force is in shambles, prices are going back up. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Something to consider, the entirety of the new oil and gas production is heavily leveraged, in debt up their ears. Not just here but world wide. If they are capped these will begin to default. In and of itself this isnt so dangerous but in this environment very much so. The reason X Y or Z happened to crash the price is just part of the blame game, take it for what it is and act accordingly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Oil prices are the result of speculators. Speculators will drive the price up and down whenever they see an advantage. Ultimately solar panels and storage batteries will replace 90% of oil both as a source for the grid, and for vehicle propulsion. Solar panels are at best 30% efficient at this time, In 5 years 50% efficiency and lower prices will make them CHEAP per KWH. Batteries to store the juice are crap at this time, but again, in 5 years they will be 1/2 the price per KWH or less. The world ran out of wood for fuel, and had to use coal-resulting in the industrial revolution. Coal was replaced mostly by oil and the 20TH century took off. When power comes mostly from the sun and CHEAPLY we will see the next great industrial expansion, 3D print EVERYTHING!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pjj342 632 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Energy independence doesnt really matter to the common person, no matter how good it sounds on paper. Our country could be completely energy independent and still have $4/gallon gas prices. Speculation and market fixing are the real reasons for the current 'good for us' gas prices and they will also be the reason for the 'bad for us' gas prices that will come back. Big oil, whether they frack or drill, do not thrive on current oil prices. Fracking, which is the reason for the US oil surge, costs more than conventional drilling, so when frackers rule the land, gas prices will be through the roof. I cant wait until everything goes to electric and we can tell these crooks to go fuck themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) I would love to see affordable solar power. As tech gadgets improve they become less battery draining too. The free-market flourishes, when governments keep their greedy mits out of our business. Edited February 10, 2015 by Sim_Player Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I cant wait until everything goes to electric and we can tell these crooks to go fuck themselves. ...and electricity comes from OIL, coal, hydro, or nuke. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sim_Player 1,939 Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Alot of Electric Dams have been torn down in Wasington State (to save the salmon). I love Salmon too but, I don't blame them for the low salmon numbers. The planet is always changing. Edited February 10, 2015 by Sim_Player Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I cant wait until everything goes to electric and we can tell these crooks to go fuck themselves. If you think oil companies are so much more profitable than other companies buy there stock. "Evil oil companies" is a libtard created myth and you are buying it hook line and sinker. Oil prices are determined by supply and demand, "speculators" do not play that big of a part in the market, they too are another "demon" created by socialist scum. If you own a mutual fund, chances are you are an owner of an "evil" oil company. The economic ignorance of the masses assures me that our country is doomed. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Electric freight trains? 18 wheelers? electric airliners? total stupidity I will keep my classic cars and burn gasoline You can have you electric smart car or pussy prius...might as well paint a rainbow on it while your at it 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 ROFL! Prius with a Rainbow! I don't want an electric car for the economy, I want one for the balls out torque boost you get by assisting a gas engine with electric motors! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james lambert 3,059 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Motors have a place I just prefer the torque of a blown big block chevy.....in a 2000lb car 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 ROFL! Prius with a Rainbow! Rainbows are standard equipment on every Prius. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 ROFL! Prius with a Rainbow! Rainbows are standard equipment on every Prius. I've seen more than one here in the People's Republic of Maryland. Also on a LOT of Subarus... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
38 Special 7 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) I'm a long time lurker who hasn't had much to add until I saw this thread on a topic that directly impacts me. I work in the industry as an engineer and of course follow this very closely. Whenever oil gets in the news, it always amazes me how little the "experts" you see on cable actually know. The BP blowout was a great example of this. That said, a most of the opinions on this thread are actually pretty reasonable. I just want to clear up a couple of misconceptions about "big oil". 1. Big oil (which I am not a part of) did very little of the innovation behind the frac'ing revolution. It was the smaller, more agile operators who figured it out. In the shale fields that I've worked, companies like BP, Exxon, and Marathon are the the most incompetent. 2. Integrated oil companies (like Exxon) own 10% of the world's oil reserves. They are small fish compared to the state-run companies in other nations. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704852004575258541875590852 3. While the industry reports large profits, they invest large amounts to earn those profits. Compare the rate of return for the oil industry to Coca Cola, pharmaceuticals,or Apple, and you'd see that they do a pretty terrible job of gouging the customer. In fact, taxes claim the majority of the profits earned by oil companies. The last time I checked, Exxon was paying close to 3X more in taxes than net income, but you have to look at the state and local taxes to get to that number, which are much higher than many other industries. The big profits from the industry are really swallowed up by the world's governments, not by Exxon. BTW, I love my Saiga .308. I have a 100 series that I'm thinking about converting, any advice there? Edited February 11, 2015 by 38 Special 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I got 2000 shares of Chevron and get a nice dividend check. All the companies the the libs call "Big Oil" are nothing but little shits in the grand scheme of things. Gazprom is the biggest, and Aramco I think is second. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Oil prices are the result of speculators. Speculators will drive the price up and down whenever they see an advantage. Ultimately solar panels and storage batteries will replace 90% of oil both as a source for the grid, and for vehicle propulsion. Solar panels are at best 30% efficient at this time, In 5 years 50% efficiency and lower prices will make them CHEAP per KWH. Batteries to store the juice are crap at this time, but again, in 5 years they will be 1/2 the price per KWH or less. The world ran out of wood for fuel, and had to use coal-resulting in the industrial revolution. Coal was replaced mostly by oil and the 20TH century took off. When power comes mostly from the sun and CHEAPLY we will see the next great industrial expansion, 3D print EVERYTHING!!! I'd like to beleive you but my money is on your timeline being too short. Also, for me, the killer on electric cars is you're only looking at around 80 miles per charge. When they can double that I'll be in. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah lets not focus too much on the footprint of those battery techs... On the 100 conversion, I wouldnt given it may be more valuable left as is in the long run. Have fun 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Rhodes, You're absolutely right on the footprint. I don't know who said it but it's true, "If it can't be grown, it has to be mined." Everything has a footprint, including renewables. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Alot of Electric Dams have been torn down in Wasington State (to save the salmon). I love Salmon too but, I don't blame them for the low salmon numbers. The planet is always changing. Yes, and it is silly. However, the Columbia was unequivocally the largest run of salmon in the world by orders of magnitude prior to the damming. After that it is functionally not a salmon bearing river, at least upriver of the dams. State projects to farm fish actually harm the pitiful wild runs they compete with. I don't advocate removing the dams, but they did absolutely obliterate the salmon runs. Those won't come back with some partial elimination of dams either. The dams do a lot more than provide electricity, they also prevent flooding, provide drinkable water and irrigation... -- 3rd gen commercial fisher in AK, -son of a former columbia fisherman, boat builders. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oil prices are the result of speculators. Speculators will drive the price up and down whenever they see an advantage. Ultimately solar panels and storage batteries will replace 90% of oil both as a source for the grid, and for vehicle propulsion. Solar panels are at best 30% efficient at this time, In 5 years 50% efficiency and lower prices will make them CHEAP per KWH. Batteries to store the juice are crap at this time, but again, in 5 years they will be 1/2 the price per KWH or less. The world ran out of wood for fuel, and had to use coal-resulting in the industrial revolution. Coal was replaced mostly by oil and the 20TH century took off. When power comes mostly from the sun and CHEAPLY we will see the next great industrial expansion, 3D print EVERYTHING!!! I'd like to beleive you but my money is on your timeline being too short. Also, for me, the killer on electric cars is you're only looking at around 80 miles per charge. When they can double that I'll be in. It's all about energy density and refill/recharge time. Gasoline is king because it is light enough and has enough energy per pound to drive a car 400 miles with a tank that is small enough and light enough to fit in the vehicle easily. Gasoline is also a liquid so the tank can be filled in a reasonably short time.. Battery cars ruled in 1900, but the weight and energy density were not comparable to gasoline. The recharge time of those batteries was in hours, not minuets - the same as today's batteries. The next generation of batteries is coming in 5 years or so. They will have an energy density sufficient to drive a vehicle 400 miles on a battery that is comparable in size and weight to a tank of gas. The recharge times will be a LOT faster than current batteries, but look for gas to rule in the recharge time for at least the next 10 years. My take is that commuter cars, mechanics vans and delivery trucks will be competitive with gas in 5 years, and in 10 over the road trucks and cars and RV's that do long haul will be practical.. The electric grid is where solar/battery systems will have the first impact. In many places in the US it is cheaper NOW to install a solar/battery system than to buy power from the grid. Eventually the grid will be mostly a way to move solar energy around as needed. Weight, energy density and recharge times are not as important for stationary systems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 G O B, If you are talking about buying a DC battery banked solar system vs. bringing the grid to your remote location, then yes it might be cheaper. The battery's are the major expense to the system. Their lifespan is not great and will need to be replaced in a decade or so. Most are not economical if the grid is already at your doorstep. Maybe if the battery technology comes like you say and the price for them doesn't skyrocket this will change. If you are talking about a grid tied solar system being cheaper than buying power from your local power company, then yes, maybe. In some circumstances with Federal and State tax credits, expensive kWh rates, good solar insolation and ROI on the system of less than about 10 years grid tied systems are worth it. The reason a electric vehicle is appealing to me is because I have a larger than needed grid tied solar system. At the end of the year I am giving power back to the poco (they don't pay for the extra I give them). I could capitalize on my investment better if I used that extra power generation to fuel a car. Right now, the EV's aren't at a point that I can justify the investment into them. If Nissan would cut the price of a Leaf in half and/or extend their battery warranty well beyond the 60k miles they are currently at I would jump in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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