JDeko 792 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm wondering about muzzle brakes. I originally wanted the full Monster one that CSS sells but I wonder if it'd look derp-tarded on a wood furniture Saiga 12. I also don't really know how much good it would do, in comparison to no brake or to more minimal of brakes. So with that said I thought I'd make another thread to see what y'all think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I dont really feel the S12 kicks that hard, but the ones Ive shot with brakes, it actually helped tame it down a bit. It wont look that bad with one on it, wood furniture or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 There are lots of threads on this topic. Seems like a lot of us have settled on the Molot GK01 or the USA made CSS equivalent. The recoil impulse is very different as compared with no brake. Sort of a rolling motion. I'm a believer in them and have them on all my competition S12s. Any brake makes the gun a bit long unless you shorten the barrel and perm the comp. It also means you have to jump through some hoops if you want chokes with a brake. A few threads on that too -- how to have brake and chokes at the same time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I was hoping there was someone with a wood Saiga and a big honking muzzle brake on so I could see what it would look like. I know a lot of folks get on me for wanting my gun to look good as opposed to completely prioritizing function but I'd be kinda bummed if when I finally get my STG47 set from Ironwood then put another 150 down on a brake only for it to look really silly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Well, IMO the one prettiest with wood is a '74 style dealie as sold by Dinzag. It won't really do any breaking. Next up is the 10 slot. For that I would get the DPH one threaded to take chokes. When I had an MD 10 slot on my woodie 108, I got constant complements on the aesthetics from anyone who saw it. It looks good in pictures, but in person, the looks are balanced. If you want max compensation, For popular commercial comps, you will do well with any of the following: Monster, GKO1 & clone, JTE competition. I can say that the second two are relatively light, and the first is kinda clunky. I think they all look good. It basically comes down to the amount of perpendicular (curved or angled too) surface area near the first 1.5" or so of the muzzle. These all have 2-3 slots in the effective area which have roughly 5 mm thick or so of perpendicular-ish surface area, and they all behave more similarly than differently. shapes outside of that range and forward of it don't do much more. Thinner comps don't do as much, but do look sleeker. Thin and long does not much more than thin and short. Ditto for thick and long. TL/DR: does it have meat and vents where it counts? - Then it will work well. For more subtle lines and medium compensation, there is the tromix shark, or the DPH made version of it which was done for RJF initially. The DPH one is a lot bulkier than the tromix IMO those would both look better with the spikes ground off, and that would be fairly easy to do. A Tromix shark with the throns off would be fairly subtle vissually. Most of the ones of the cutts style or as sold by SGM/ the ones on the poly choke models don't do any perceptible compensation, and IMO don't really work for looks either. I suppose they do protect your muzzle and allow venting for those frequent times when you don't feel like finding the key to open your front door. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 So the mini-monster is more or less as good as the full size monster brake? Or were you saying that the full monster is going to be remarkably better than the mini? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
horatio 515 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 From someone who had researched this somewhat heavily, ill give you the short and quick. Monster- best. Turns your shotgun barrel into a four foot long obstruction. Mini monster. 50 % length. 80% retention. All other ( In varying degrees from jte and gko1 down) somewhat good and way better than nothing Also deko, I'd love to be ironman and pose as a billionaire genius. But I don't cuz I'm not. Since you still have a dick how about you stop saying you're a girl? Just sayin.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Cool, I might go with the mini-monster then if its 80% as efficient as the full length one. Plus FG42s, which is what the Ironwood set I'm getting is based on, had a muzzle break I guess it would just be adding to looking like the weapon the parts originally went to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 So the mini-monster is more or less as good as the full size monster brake? Or were you saying that the full monster is going to be remarkably better than the mini? I haven't compared them, but if the trends observable in other brakes with similar vent design continue, the mini should be very similar in actual braking to the full size. The full size does have the additional recoil mitigation of mass. That's a plus for point and shoot competitions, and a negative for having a natural swing at moving targets. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yeah, and I've already learned from practice runs through my house that 41in is a lot to swing through halls and doorways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The full monster was never meant to be on anything other than a chopped barrel. On a chopped barrel, maybe another vent slot or two is doing some actual work too, so the design makes more sense. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Do any of these have the unfortunate side effect of becoming a rather efficient "loudener"? Edited March 23, 2015 by JDeko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KennyFSU 249 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Also, any reported cycling issues with the addition of a brake? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Have never seen any problems with muzzle brakes. Mid barrel compensators can cause cycling issues. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skoodge 22 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I have a vepr-12 with the CSS GK-01 and a Romanian dong hand guard, it's a side folder so I can't change the stock (easily at least), and I haven't had a chance to get a wood grip yet. But it may give you a little bit of an idea of what it looks like. I'll post a pick later tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 thanks, that would be nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skoodge 22 Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Yeah, the brake is a little big, but I don't think it's too long. Maybe if you had the 21" barrel, I'd say a chop and perm would be the way to go. I hope that picture helps a little, not the best lighting at the moment. Edited March 24, 2015 by Skoodge 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 It does a lot since the only images I'd seen besides yours were on the totally "tactical"d out ones with quadrails atop trirails all over the place. Seeing it on an AK style one is exactly what I was hoping to see for scale reasons. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Oh, I see, that's the howitzer-looking brake [reading comprehension fail] still its the same weight as the Mini-Monster so it gives me a good idea of the size of that. Very helpful indeed still. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Do any of these have the unfortunate side effect of becoming a rather efficient "loudener"? I've never noticed it on a shotgun. Rifles yes. Maybe someone with a quality recording setup could dispute that though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compshootfl 40 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I have been using the JTE for a year on my competition gun...despite what many people say, it really makes a huge diffrence. I also just shot a Vepr 12 with a GK-01 on it and it was effective also. On a side note, I thought the JTE was just as effective, if not more effective than the GK-01 in my opinion, it seemed to have less recoil impulse. Edited March 30, 2015 by compshootfl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Care to do a side by side shooting video swapping each comp to each gun? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compshootfl 40 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I can try to put that together...but no promises. Just to clarify...both guns are Vepr 12's. Here's a pic of mine. Edited March 31, 2015 by compshootfl 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Get a stapler and a stack of paper plates. Prop up a few 2x4s with the plates arranged like a plate rack or a shooting tree. Do the same course with each, using one of those free match timer apps. I think having to actually aim shows more than just a mag dump against a grid. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 That is a pretty great idea for making a quick target tree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 My IDPA club reverted to that after I introduced the S12. Alternate match days are not ranked and have at least one long arm stage. Optional use of either a rifle or a shotgun. Most people were driving their ARs. For shotguns, either buck or slugs were permitted. They were using the normal cardboard sillhouettes. The first day I brought my S12, the stage instructions required you to walk a figure 8 around some barrels while shooting. At each of 3 points, you had to shoot centermass on 4 targets with 2+ shots each. (No penalty other than spent time for extra shots.) Since I didn't get to do this kind of thing often and I wanted to force a couple mag changes while moving, I opted to do 3 shots each. (more shooting = more fun) I ran at about the same time as the AR guys who did 3 shots. But for some reason the tape dots weren't enough to get the targets ready for the next guy after me. New cardboard was required. Each one had a tidy 3.5-4" hole missing in the DZ. After that, they took the shotgun more seriously, and they also made all the long arm stages change to a T shaped wood stand they could staple several 6" paper saucers too. I've been using the system since, to supplement my scant few steel targets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sounds like a good plan, I'm trying to figure out targets for myself now that I'm contemplating outdoor ranges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Automatikjack 1 Posted April 13, 2015 Report Share Posted April 13, 2015 So to recap there are no brakes made to take chokes? I seem to recall while browsing that there are threaded choke adapters that give you the option of using standard shotgun chokes with the added ability of screwing a brake on afterwards. Has anyone played with these or seen a similar concept? I have also seen dummy birdcage flash hiders that are threaded (silly imo). Since we are somewhat on the subject, I have found rifled barrel extensions for the S12 (seemingly absurd) and I will have to go looking again since I found it on my phone. Anyone see or have any experience with those as well? As for the loudening effect, my money is on those or any brakes doing just that. Since you are doing the same redirecting of gas/shockwave to the sides/left/right/rear/up/down in an effort to dump that force, I don't see why it wouldn't behave the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted April 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 So the 10 slot "flash hiders" help reduce recoil as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fitty% 808 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm wondering about muzzle brakes. I originally wanted the full Monster one that CSS sells but I wonder if it'd look derp-tarded on a wood furniture Saiga 12. I also don't really know how much good it would do, in comparison to no brake or to more minimal of brakes. So with that said I thought I'd make another thread to see what y'all think. For the best recoil reduction the Tromix Monster and either the real GK01 or the CSS version are the best and practically equal....Ive done testing lol 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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