cfr 4 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Greetings. So with the help of you folks I was able to thread a friends barrel recently on a partially converted saiga. I say "partially" because it takes AK mags, but the rear of the gun only has a tapco type stock with the trigger in its original place. So we went to shoot the rifle yesterday and I noticed a fair amount of muzzle rise and a lot of time in between shots. Now keep in mind Im more of a pistol guy and have no formal rifle training other than stance and keeping the elbows down tight, and the owner doesnt have much more than that. All said we got wondering what (in addition to training) what would help the most with this? 1) A full conversion? The logic being rear hand placement would be closer to the center of the gun. 2) Red dot? 3) A fore grip add-on like this one. I know he wants to avoid a vertical fore grip as they're hideous looking. I also know he's looking to stay with a flash hider as opposed to a muzzle brake. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Since his main concern is function, the proper brake will kill muzzle rise. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfr 4 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks, but i know he wants to stay with a flash hider as opposed to a brake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nlacy 692 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 if a brake is out, I think all you have left is practice. Lots of practice. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks, but i know he wants to stay with a flash hider as opposed to a brake. ..then he'll just have to accept slow recoil recovery, unless he wants to hang a bunch of weight off the front of the rifle to keep it down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nlacy 692 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Suppressor? Edited March 22, 2015 by mizombiekilla Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,218 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I may be in the minority here, but I do believe that a full conversion helps with muzzle climb and perceived recoil. The stock/pg/trigger conversion IMO produces vastly improved balance and ergonomics. This leads to better control of the rifle, and faster follow up shots. YMMV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfr 4 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do surpressors kill muzzle flip and flash? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Anything that add weight to the front of the gun will reduce muzzle climb. A compensator reduces muzzle climb be redirecting muzzle gases to offset that climb. A brake reduces recoil by directing gases to the sides, and slightly rearward, reducing recoil. There are comps and brakes that do both of these things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 CFR, OF ALL THE ONES I'VE TRIED, THE PRIMARY WEAPONS FSC-47 DOES BOTH THE BEST. THE NEW DRAKON MAY DO BETTER, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY IT YET, AND IT'S ALSO ALMOST $50 MORE. JESS1344 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfr 4 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 CFR, OF ALL THE ONES I'VE TRIED, THE PRIMARY WEAPONS FSC-47 DOES BOTH THE BEST. THE NEW DRAKON MAY DO BETTER, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY IT YET, AND IT'S ALSO ALMOST $50 MORE. JESS1344 By "both" do you mean tame muzzle flip as well as suppress flash? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Battlecomp is the best trade-off. Tames muzzle rise very well and does a nice job on cutting down on (not eliminating) flash. But he should convert the gun first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Put a Bulgarian 4pc on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 CFR, OF ALL THE ONES I'VE TRIED, THE PRIMARY WEAPONS FSC-47 DOES BOTH THE BEST. THE NEW DRAKON MAY DO BETTER, BUT I HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY IT YET, AND IT'S ALSO ALMOST $50 MORE. JESS1344 By "both" do you mean tame muzzle flip as well as suppress flash? CFR, YES, BOTH MUZZLE RISE AND FLASH, I HAVE THEM ON 'X39, 'X54R, AND 'X51 GUNS. JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tire iron 13 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 "Control" has more to do with technique than whatever is on the gun. Having said that - a full conversion is in order to primarily get the rifle's center of gravity closer to the shooter. Without a conversion, the center of gravity is farther away from the shooter's body. Check out a video of me shooting a stock AKM (semi-auto) wherein I shoot 10 rounds into a paper plate at 5 yards in less than 2.5 seconds. https://youtu.be/LkioHTlp3Qs Or the SKS video on the same channel in case anyone thinks the standard AKM slant brake makes a huge difference. https://youtu.be/IbeXm9UNcRE Check out this one - it illustrates how a longer firearm is a hinderance. Because the AR308 has an adjustable buttstock and I can get it closer to me, I can shoot it much faster than the longer FN FAL. https://youtu.be/uQz88Zs4H1o As you can see, technique is more important than anything else. Once your technique is mastered, then the brakes, etc. can help even more. Hope this helps, cheers tire iron 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,930 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I've only watched the first one so far, but the video was spot on. your comment on the type 3 clearance issue was a new insight for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfr 4 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 "Control" has more to do with technique than whatever is on the gun. Having said that - a full conversion is in order to primarily get the rifle's center of gravity closer to the shooter. Without a conversion, the center of gravity is farther away from the shooter's body. This is something I was wondering, as it makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,366 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Practice more. Some muzzle devices can help, but if muzzle rise is a chief complaint with 7.62x39 then the shooter is probably inexperienced. The round doesn't have that much kick to it. Get the rear end converted, then learn to pull the rifle tight in and lean into it. Most of the muzzle rise will disappear with the right stance and method. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 The new Brakeout II has been getting some really good reviews. Dont think it comes in 14x1LH though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Getting the stock to be in-line with the barrel does help a bit. The traditional AK stock that angles up does increase rise over say an M4 type setup. Just want that force vector to be as close to zero as reasonable. This puts more energy into the meat of the shoulder and less is expended upward. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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