striker754 0 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Classic government. ATF has to approve all imports and they can't even get this right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunz4Fun 0 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Classic government. ATF has to approve all imports and they can't even get this right? But I would wager they will make it right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Would be interesting to see where the ball lands. Does anyone know if the ATF actually has someone with customs that inspects the stuff upon entering the US? If so then that would be the simple place to point the blame. If they were assumed to inspect teh shipment (and we know they were all deficent) then why would the US distributor check the barrel length before shipping them? Seems like it might be completly or at least half an ATF mix up. Just think these things could have just as easily ended up here with go-fast switches on them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 how the hell is this the ATFs mistake? RAA ordered 18+" barreled shotguns from the manufacturer. the manufacturer sends 17.2" barreled shotguns. humm...yep. must be the ATFs fault. by that logic, we can blame cops when a drunk driver hits somebody. afterall, the cops should have caught the guy before he did any damage. if you expect that, then expect your taxes to triple so we can increase patrol 400% and make it realisically possible. the ATF screws up enough without having to fabricate shit to blame on them. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Customs, ATF, RRA, Russians? Does anyone inspect the things when they land in the ports? Is it the manufacturer customs or ATF. If the ATF has an inspector then I could see that happening. Customs too. Not because I am blaiming the cops but because they have a lot on their plate and it could be easy to not inspect an item that is persumed to be fine. Not that it would even be the ATF but their inspectors that check the stuff. Hmmm dont see how that statement was confusing before. Maybe I should clarify I beleive it is up to customs to inspect stuff so that is where the coming into the country could be partially pointed. Not that it matters at this point My point was that is there a break down between customs, atf, and mfger. Is there a step that isnt in there that maybe should be in the paperwork. If it is the sole duty of RRA to inspect well then we know where it is at. Edited February 18, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Not that it matters at this point This WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD is just about to that point as far as I am concerned.... I am so sick of hearing about who should have done what and who needs to do what and who fucked up and whos asses are on the line... Jezus... fuckin get a grip... if you need to send it back, DO IT... if you dont want to... DONT... if you want to whine and bitch about the fuck up... go outside and yell at the ground... it is just about as likely that it will make any difference THERE as it will in this thread... CALL THE ATF... tell them your story... let THEM TELL YOU FIRSTHAND what you can, cant, should, shouldnt do... and then all the uncertainty of all the folks voicing their opinions in here can have it straight from the horses mouth of the ATF... The barrels are TOO SHORT!!! SEND THEM ALL BACK... wait 6 months... till the THIRD shipment arrives, they will *ALL BE LONG ENOUGH* and then the TWO other shipments, by then will be on CLEARANCE for dirt prices... cause NO ONE WILL Want the soldered on choke... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yup..I agree......It's kind'a like the diff between a pregnant Female & a Light bulb...you can UN-screw a light bulb......:-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Exactly! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Anyone know of S12s that are compliant that are available for a decent price? I think it's time I get another one... Are they all gone yet, and if so when's the next boat coming in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 LOL yeh I will take a second one LOL. Not really trying to bitch just trying to clarify. Everyone is like RRA fed up or customs Fed up but it could have been any of them and the point is they got here. Everyone here probably understands the implications of being told to send them back or you will be a violator. Dont really need to go further with it. If I get really mad at the ground I will just go out and blow it away with the saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Let's get this crap over with guys..............send the damn things back and let's get it over with. They're not going to inspect and approve and ship BACK anything until they're all accounted for. That's the way it was explained to me anyway. Stop chatting and start shipping!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
striker754 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 how the hell is this the ATFs mistake? RAA ordered 18+" barreled shotguns from the manufacturer. the manufacturer sends 17.2" barreled shotguns. humm...yep. must be the ATFs fault. by that logic, we can blame cops when a drunk driver hits somebody. afterall, the cops should have caught the guy before he did any damage. if you expect that, then expect your taxes to triple so we can increase patrol 400% and make it realisically possible. the ATF screws up enough without having to fabricate shit to blame on them. caspian Oh but it is ATFs fault. ATF controls all this. All items are inspected before coming into the country, especially post 9/11. If they weren't, there'd be no reason to have to file forms to have items imported. If there was going to be no inspection or control, why would they want to go through all the paperwork? Russians? Maybe. they might measure lengths from different spots. Still can't blame them though. RAA? Maybe. Again, depends on how the Russians told them they are measured. ATF? Hell yes. ATF has final say on the measurements and SETS THE RULES for measuring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Like I said before mistakes happen sometimes and I could see it maybe with the govnt with so much stuff to inspect. That and it is so close to 18inches it might have just been missed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I felt I should point out a big difference between the ATF not finding these shipments, and cops not catching drunk drivers. Drunk drivers are inherently more dangerous than sober ones. We made up the laws because people were dying all over the roads and we needed to keep that from happening. 17.2" barrel shotguns are not inherently more dangers than 18" barrel shotguns. We made up the law because someone got a bug up his ass in Congress, and most of America was either too hillbilly dumb to stop it, or busy dealing with other things (depression, war, communists). The federal gov't arbitrarily picked a length (because you just..have to pick SOME number if you're going to write this law). They then took a bunch of our money and handed it over to a tax agency to make sure nobody got away with not paying the NFA tax. In essence, they took a non-criminal, non-dangerous behavior (owning a shotgun with <18" bbl) and criminalized it, saying: "If YOU (the citizen) want to own a shotgun, you're responsible for making sure it meets all these following requirements. If you want to own a SHORT shotgun, then you have to pay us and you're also responsible for a bunch of other requirements. If you don't meet'em, we'll send armed men to your house to kidnap you." It may not be the ATF's "fault" in that they're not responsible fo r the mix-up. But it's their responsiblity to FIX the situation, because Congress gave them the money and the duty to handle matters relating to guns. Congress CREATED this situation by imposing an aribtrary legal length requirement on shotguns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
striker754 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Like I said before mistakes happen sometimes and I could see it maybe with the govnt with so much stuff to inspect. That and it is so close to 18inches it might have just been missed. So close is fine with regards to imports, but they'll break out the goddamn micrometer to measure a shotgun they suspect is illegal. If its 17.999" you probably go to jail. Its the ATFs fault that the shotguns were allowed to be distributed, make no doubt about that. Shit like this is what caused Ruby Ridge and sparked further engagements like Waco and OKC bombing. Edited February 19, 2006 by striker754 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Actually, it is the importer's responsibility to assure they are importing legal firearms. They contract with the Russians who either misunderstood, ignored the customer or decided to clean house before beginning new production. With some of the date stamps that were being thrown around it makes me wonder if these barrels were previously rejected by EAA but are now being passed off to RAAC. Who knows for sure but the Russians? Anyway, the ATF can choose to check every arriving load or none at all. RAAC remains responsible for compliance whether the policeman is looking or not. That is why RAAC is complying with the ATF's requirement/request to bring them all under one roof for inspection. The simple truth is RAAC was in a big hurry, just like we are and didn't carefully check or inspect the weapons before breaking out orders for their distributors who in turn sold to some of us. Nevertheless RAAC is responsible for assuring compliance....or they can lose their license. The ATF is being reasonable about this....if...........they permit a "fix" without confiscation and return to Russia or destruction of the firearms. That does not mean I believe the 18" law is reasonable.........only the ATF's willingness to work with RAAC on a "permanent fix" with the longstanding law. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 It's all another good reason to go with a used shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Shit like this is what caused Ruby Ridge and sparked further engagements like Waco and OKC bombing. No shit like this does not give anyone the right to blow up inoccent people. They did that because they were nuts. At least the bombers in iraq were kind enough to blow theirselves up too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
striker754 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Share Posted February 21, 2006 Shit like this is what caused Ruby Ridge and sparked further engagements like Waco and OKC bombing. No shit like this does not give anyone the right to blow up inoccent people. They did that because they were nuts. At least the bombers in iraq were kind enough to blow theirselves up too. What started Ruby Ridge? <18" shotgun barrels. Who got pissed at these things/govt? Tim McVeigh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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