Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 frick (on another thread) has astutely raised the 922r compliance question with regard to affixing muzzle devices to unconverted S-12's with the 17.2" short barrels. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 frick (on another thread) has astutely raised the 922r compliance question with regard to affixing muzzle devices to unconverted S-12's with the 17.2" short barrels. Wolverine Flash hiders are definitely a 922 violation because they are a non-importable feature. Muzzle comps from everything ive ever read on 10 different gun websites would seem to me that have never been an issue on imported guns unless of course the ATF has ruled that certain compensators are also flash hiders. But I may be wrong because Ive never seen the official ATF list of all restricted features. Since the now sunsetted assult weapon ban had some guildlines, even with the AWB muzzle comps were legal between 1994-2004. But either way imports may still be restricted from muzzle comps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hk4me 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 922r doesn't apply to Short Barrel Shotguns Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesterbox 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Everyone keeps talking about go ahead and make it a SBS! Doesn't that require a Tax of $200.00? Maybe some of you don't care but $200.00 added on to $417.32 is a wee bit much for what used to be $300.00 a few years back. As I said, this is one screwed up deal. Pesterbox. Edited February 12, 2006 by pesterbox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunz4Fun 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) Can't the barrels be replaced? And do not talk poorly about RAAC! Please! Did their own bonded warehouse load the container ? Anybody in business has dealt with similar situations. Weren't these sporting rifles checked by USCustoms? Edited February 12, 2006 by Gunz4Fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 A barrel change would probably cost them more than the original gun, the only practical option would be to attach a Brake or a barrel extension. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Well I lucked out,I'm getting one of the last S12's that EAA imported.The ones my smith got were 17.2" as well and he is pissed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Everyone keeps talking about go ahead and make it a SBS! Doesn't that require a Tax of $200.00? Maybe some of you don't care but $200.00 added on to $417.32 is a wee bit much for what used to be $300.00 a few years back. As I said, this is one screwed up deal. Pesterbox. I think what they're talking about is a grandfathered SBS. I.e. no extra cost to you, but you must fill out the NFA paperwork to hold on to the gun. But that's unlikely to happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 922r doesn't apply to Short Barrel Shotguns It wont be a SBS if a comp is welded on and makes the barrel legal length. Once your back up to legal length, you cant have a flash hider on there unless its 922 compliant by reducing enough parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Everybody can chill out...I was at Tony's shop this morning to test fire my AR, and he said it's all good. The BATF will issue a letter allowing a 30 day (I think) period in which to modify the guns. I'm sure Tony will fill in the details later, but he's busy as hell right now- every horizontal surface in his shop was covered in Saigas. Cheers, Bob Ash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Everybody can chill out...I was at Tony's shop this morning to test fire my AR, and he said it's all good. The BATF will issue a letter allowing a 30 day (I think) period in which to modify the guns. I'm sure Tony will fill in the details later, but he's busy as hell right now- every horizontal surface in his shop was covered in Saigas. Cheers, Bob Ash BobAsh, I guess if you solder one of the chokes on it would make the grade on length but here is what Tony Rumore had to say about his muzzle devices on another thread: "The problem is that you would have to send ATF the muzzle device and have them rule as to whether it is actually a muzzle brake or a flash hider. That would probably take longer then the window of time they will allow to actually get the muzzle attachment permanently affixed. If FBMG has a contact at the ATF, maybe we could get the device expedited through a ruling. The two units that I have been using would definately be ruled as flash hiders. My new Shark brake may be ruled a muzzle brake, since it does not have any cuts that are parallel to the bore." That doesn't sound like "it's all good" since 922r would apply to a muzzle flash hider. Then there are those who bought through other distributors. Thankfully, Pvt. Pyle is willing to help out but this will involve far more than a little silver solder. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Wolverine, All I really know is what Tony told me this morning...he said it wasn't going to be a problem. Maybe he meant it wouldn't be a problem FOR HIM. As I said, I'm sure he will elaborate further when he gets a chance. Cheers, Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Veen 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 So after all the shit that RAA went through with the ATF, after all the hassle other Saiga-12 enthusiasts went through getting hassled for various projects, the ATF is now totally cool with crates of SBS's being accidentally shipped stateside and sold without the paperwork, and is just like, "Heh, we goofed dudes, sorry bout that. Just fix them up in the month or make them legal or something and we're all good?" I mean I guess that's cool and all. I just want to know how those shotguns ever even made it over. Like someone said, don't they have to be checked out and inspected before being sent to stateside distributors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hk4me 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 922r doesn't apply to Short Barrel Shotguns It wont be a SBS if a comp is welded on and makes the barrel legal length. Once your back up to legal length, you cant have a flash hider on there unless its 922 compliant by reducing enough parts. ________________________________________________________________________________ _______ You're preaching to the choir Now who's making fun of my Tapco parts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z1500 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I had a few on order with The Gun Source and they are only a couple miles away. So I got mine the day they showed up. When I pulled the first one out of the box I noticed how much I liked to barrel length but didn't measure it. I remember thinking, 'damn I don't even need to shorten these'. Now that I have measured they are exactly 17.2". Mine are all marked 2001. If BATF wants to round them all up and chop'em, I have a really cool idea. They'll only be collecting stripped receivers from me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TopGlock1 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 OK guys, RAA does know of this, I just spoke with Debbie on her cell. They have spoken with the ATF on this and are waiting for their local field agent to get back to them, but so far it looks like What BobAsh said is whats going to happen. Debbie did say for now that the ATF said for any customers that have received them to just sit tight and not to send them back to their dealers or to RAA. I have modded all of our remaining stock to having the factory muzzle device silver soldered on to be compliant. When I hear back from RAA about what to do with the ones I have sent out, I will sure as hell post it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesterbox 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 OK guys, RAA does know of this, I just spoke with Debbie on her cell. They have spoken with the ATF on this and are waiting for their local field agent to get back to them, but so far it looks like What BobAsh said is whats going to happen. Debbie did say for now that the ATF said for any customers that have received them to just sit tight and not to send them back to their dealers or to RAA. I have modded all of our remaining stock to having the factory muzzle device silver soldered on to be compliant. When I hear back from RAA about what to do with the ones I have sent out, I will sure as hell post it. TOPGLOCK, mine is due to be delivered today and my Sporting Goods Store will decline delivery and it will be sent back to you. The order number is 48300. You people forget that everyone is not having the shotgun modified. I have $162.00 worth of chokes that I just bought and I'm not going to eat somone else's screwup just to satisfy all of the distributors. Please apply the cost $417.32 back to my credit card upon receiving the shotgun back. Pesterbox. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TopGlock1 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) OK guys, RAA does know of this, I just spoke with Debbie on her cell. They have spoken with the ATF on this and are waiting for their local field agent to get back to them, but so far it looks like What BobAsh said is whats going to happen. Debbie did say for now that the ATF said for any customers that have received them to just sit tight and not to send them back to their dealers or to RAA. I have modded all of our remaining stock to having the factory muzzle device silver soldered on to be compliant. When I hear back from RAA about what to do with the ones I have sent out, I will sure as hell post it. TOPGLOCK, mine is due to be delivered today and my Sporting Goods Store will decline delivery and it will be sent back to you. The order number is 48300. You people forget that everyone is not having the shotgun modified. I have $162.00 worth of chokes that I just bought and I'm not going to eat somone else's screwup just to satisfy all of the distributors. Please apply the cost $417.32 back to my credit card upon receiving the shotgun back. Pesterbox. Not a problem, I have already been notified and you will be taken care of. Edited February 13, 2006 by TopGlock1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunz4Fun 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 This is but one big bump in the road. Soldering might be a quick fix for some, but what happened to the 19" barrels? And how do you get a military finish on the solder? Can't wait to see what they say to do. In the meantime, can't wait to have a legal RAAC Saiga 12, even if it is soldered. It would be even nicer if they would let these slide, as interchangeable chokes are a big plus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I think Tony had the only good idea which is to silver solder a threaded extension on them to allow just that. If customers are going to be expected to buy a Shotgun with a choke permanently attached they should be able to at least choose waht size choke the ywant on there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 This is a big todo about nothing. The sellers seem willing to help, rra seems willing to help, and the ATF seems understandign of the consumer. No reason to wig out. So you have a bunch of chokes, see if they can do the extention thing for you. Second, I am really surprised that people thought they would buy a russian semi shotgun that beets teh pants off of other semi shotguns in competitions and not do any work to it at all. Why didnt they just buy a charlse daily or a remington 1100 and call it a day. Ok, now I am wondering some specifics of silver sader. I can just go to the hardware store and grab some, a torch, put it on the threads, heat it and I am done right? I am not worried about taking it off because as soon as I can sell some parts and get $200 I am going to SBS this bad boy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tsargis 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Silver solder is different than regular solder. It has a higher melt temperature and it is stronger. Normally you'll find it at a gunsmith supply house like www.brownells.com and don't forget the proper flux and proper soldering techniques. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GlockRocket34$ 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 OK guys, RAA does know of this, I just spoke with Debbie on her cell. They have spoken with the ATF on this and are waiting for their local field agent to get back to them, but so far it looks like What BobAsh said is whats going to happen. Debbie did say for now that the ATF said for any customers that have received them to just sit tight and not to send them back to their dealers or to RAA. I have modded all of our remaining stock to having the factory muzzle device silver soldered on to be compliant. When I hear back from RAA about what to do with the ones I have sent out, I will sure as hell post it. TopGlock, I spoke with someone at TGS (Mark?) today and confirmed that I still wanted my s-12, in spite of the soldered-on choke. That said, can I request a modified tube be installed before it is soldered? Just a preference, second choice is improved cylinder/cylinder bore. Third choice--'don't give a s***! because it'll get a muzzle brake at that point. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Seems RAA should give everyone a free mag (8-rounder) for the trouble. "Yeah, right" I'm just pleasantly surprised ATF is playing to be part of the solution at this point. Thanks Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Went to my dealer today and they wouldnt let me take possession of it. I cant fix it if I cant get it. They are fixing it though so that I guess is what counts. I think they are afraid of getting in trouble if they transfer it to me. Problem is they didnt use the correct measuring method when doing it so I get to do it again when I do pick it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Went to my dealer today and they wouldnt let me take possession of it. I cant fix it if I cant get it. They are fixing it though so that I guess is what counts. I think they are afraid of getting in trouble if they transfer it to me. Problem is they didnt use the correct measuring method when doing it so I get to do it again when I do pick it up. Who did you transfer thru? D&P know their stuff pretty good, I'd trust their measurements anyday ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) Oh yeh they are about what they are suppose to be but I just want to make sure since the ATF standard is a dowel rod that touches the breach face that is marked. No biggy just I want to be able to tell the ATF I did it their way when they come a knocking to ask if I fixed it. Their measurement was about .1 a in less so if nothing else I should be safer but still want to be sure and I might get my wife to double check behind me. Shouldnt be a big thing will go and get it tomorrow and might form 1 it soon. Edited February 14, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akcowboy 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Probably a very easy and quick way to fix this is to hi temp solder or weld a cylindrical OUTSERT. Then you would have the legal length but the factory choke threads would be good to go. Just make the outsert the proper (stepped) inside diameter to offer a smooth transition from the original muzzle. Hey go ahead and make it with some gnarly ports, maybe a bayo lug, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I talked to Jeff at The Gun Source yesterday and he said that all of the Saigas were being sent back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I talked to Jeff at The Gun Source yesterday and he said that all of the Saigas were being sent back. Back to RAAC or back to the motherland? Ah, what's a few more months! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) I talked to Jeff at The Gun Source yesterday and he said that all of the Saigas were being sent back. I dont know ...lot of different stories at this point. If you think about it the easiest thing for the ATF to do from a varafication stand point is to bring them all back in to RAA ....from there they are either made compiant or shipped back to Russa. The ATF doesnt want to have to track down all of these once they are in the publics hands.....just my opinion. Fact is...if you have one and have made it compliant you still may have to send it back...we'll see how they rule. Edited February 15, 2006 by akok Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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