PvtPyle 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Back to RAAC to have the choke welded on. I know this is a PITA, but if you decide to add the conversion, or add Tony's choke extension then you are able to change the chokes out again. Sure it sucks right now, but the ATF is going to take a few weeks to issue a finding, and if all the guns are fixed by then there really isn't a problem for them to address is there............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 So PvtPyle............since RAAC isn't answering my e-mails as of yet, what if us enterprising, obsessive compulsive gunsmiths have already made the weapon legal and have started the conversion process?? We just let them know and keep the weapon?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 OMG why are they still obsessing over this. It has already been posted that if the weapons have a choke wealded or silver saudered on that it is complyant. I will not be sending it back no matter what RRA says because the weapon is now LEGAL. IF they want to send a field agent to verify it I will be more than happy to acomindate them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Keep in mind that they are just getting back from the show, and probably have several hundred emails to sort thru. Instant resonse is not really a reasonable expectation. If you gun is now good to go there is nothing else to do. You don't have to notify anyone, you dont have to do anything else. All anyone cares about from this end (and it seems from the ATF's end) is that the guns become compliant as quickly as possible. If you are done, you are done so to say. The only people sending guns back now are people who have decided that the issue is too big, or too risky, or has worked out something with RAAC directly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 how is the atf going to know? because they trust you? uh, wont they start checking shipping records and start pulling names and knocking on doors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) If you gun is now good to go there is nothing else to do. You don't have to notify anyone, you dont have to do anything else. All anyone cares about from this end (and it seems from the ATF's end) is that the guns become compliant as quickly as possible. If you are done, you are done so to say. Maybe true maybe not....there is still a risk you may have to send it back. Hopefully the ATF will accept some kind of affidavid as proof of compliance....just cant see them letting it go without some sort of varafication. Edited February 15, 2006 by akok Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hey Bvamp, Surely we can TRUST the government can't we??? IF they come knocking, I'll show them my perfectly legal S12 and tell them to piss off! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I don't mind the knocking on the door part, I'm legal. I mind the sending it back after I've cut and drilled and welded and CONVERTED it!!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I don't mind the knocking on the door part, I'm legal. I mind the sending it back after I've cut and drilled and welded and CONVERTED it!!!!!!! I here you my friend....a real catch 22 for sure.....my point is the ATF really doesnt want to go door to door to confirm compliance....that's why I say they may require them to be sent back.....I hope not , just dont be surprised if they do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesterbox 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) I hope everyone isn't forgetting about the ATF and Virginia! Now they are going to be polite and say that if you fix it and it is legal. that will be O.K. We will take your your word for it. That would be an unbelievable turnaround wouldn't it. I have sent mine back as I think everyone will have to show that they are legal and I can only see that happening if they all go back to RAAC so that each one can be verified at the same location then be shipped out. Maybe I will be wrong, I hope so. ( I think everyone is making a mistake as to doing anything, to the shotgun, until there is a ruling from the ATF) Edited February 15, 2006 by pesterbox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berszerk 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I was so eager to get my order, but now Im glad my FFL didnt get my info in before the shot show, because mine will be fixed before leaving FBMG, and that will be official documentation enough for the government folk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hey Bvamp, Surely we can TRUST the government can't we??? IF they come knocking, I'll show them my perfectly legal S12 and tell them to piss off! you could do that, but it would be a stupid thing to do that would further drive a wedge between field agents and everyday folks like us. You have to understand that field agents are merely messangers. They are directed by the main office to do certain things. In this case, they are inspecting for potential violations. Like it or not, the law has been in effect since 1934. If you want to cop an attitude with anyone, do so with RAA. They sent out these headaches. Be a prick to a field agent trying to do his job then wonder why they have a "them against us" attitude. You could take the high road and explain to them what lengths you went to to make the gun legal even though it was delivered in an illegal configuration. It may actually leave a lasting impression that not all gun owners are criminal......or be a prick. it's up to you. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have a fire surpressor on an AR15. Without the right tools, it is impossible for anyone to look at it and determine whether it is permanently attached to the barrel or whether it is just tightly screwed on. Will/Tomovich: When the ATF guy comes knocking at your door, do you expect him to bring the proper tools with him? If you do, you probably will be losing a Saiga12 that it will take an act of Congress for you to get back again. Before you tell anyone to Piss off, before you make the gun "legal" again, you may want to think twice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have to qualify my statements where US government law enforcement are concerned. 1.) My weapon will most definitely be legal. 2.) After the way the federal LEOs treated the local and state LEOs in New Orleans after Katrina, they will be loking over their shoulder when they come down here! That being said, and vented, I think I would still tell them that after what happened in Virginia. Somewhere, a line is going to have to be drawn! And yes, Caspian, I would politely tell them exactly what modifications had been performed and politely tell them to go bugger off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 David Koresh felt the same way. He sure showed them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 It's always a good idea to get on a soapbox and discuss all the wrongs other branches of the federal govt. have done in the past with folks trying to do their job. they'll appriciate that. Ever see black folks who demand reperations for the wrongs of whites 200 years ago? How is this any different. Nevermind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I have a fire surpressor on an AR15. Without the right tools, it is impossible for anyone to look at it and determine whether it is permanently attached to the barrel or whether it is just tightly screwed on. Will/Tomovich: When the ATF guy comes knocking at your door, do you expect him to bring the proper tools with him? If you do, you probably will be losing a Saiga12 that it will take an act of Congress for you to get back again. Before you tell anyone to Piss off, before you make the gun "legal" again, you may want to think twice. Exactly....you may want to at least have a professinal (licensed smith) varify that the attachment is secured "ATF proper" so to say and document that it is if you have done it yourself. Now if it is welded I belive that would be pretty obvious....soldered not so obvious. If you havnt done anything yet the best thing to do would be to send it back to your source for a valid repair that is documented.....IMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 IF they come knocking, I'll show them my perfectly legal S12 and tell them to piss off! I have a friend who had a little run in with the ATF. He ended up on a 15 minute ride to town face down and handcuffed in the bed of a pickup truck. I guess he should have been a little more polite. The were nice enough to do him a favor and let him know they were coming to search his house after they let him go. I guess thats alot better than just showing up. He had about a half hour to be sure his place was clean enough for company. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Exactly....you may want to at least have a professinal (licensed smith) varify that the attachment is secured "ATF proper" so to say and document that it is if you have done it yourself. Now if it is welded I belive that would be pretty obvious....soldered not so obvious. If you havnt done anything yet the best thing to do would be to send it back to your source for a valid repair that is documented.....IMO I don't think paper work will make any difference. The guy coming to your door will not be an expert in modifications. If one company does all of the modifications at one time and the ATF expert blesses them at one time - life will be easy. If you have the serial # of one of them that never got the group modification and group blessing, an ATF agent will be at your door step and will leave with your gun. You will likely never see that gun again - legal or not! The agent coming to your door ain't going to do jack shit in determining whether your gun is llegal or not - it is just going back with him. If you give him a hard time and don't want to give him the gun, you will be going with him also. I hope you get one of those prision cells with the broadband internet connection so that you can tell us what it is like being bubba's wife. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 If anyone wants the whole bloddy tale pm me, other wise forget it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 This goes outside the realm of common sense. The same logic that "how are they going to trust you that you fixed it" would be the same logic that would make you think they would come to every person's house with a bushmaster AR to make sure you didnt cut off the 5inch flash hider. Or that they wouldnt visit your house if you had a firearm and a dremel tool because you could saw the barrel off with the drimel tool and how can they trust you not to do that. You have to consider that .8 of an inch might not be worth the tax money and work load to drive to 10,000 houses to make sure you put a 1 in extention on. It is much easier and much more stable in court to wait for some dumb ass to knock over a 7-11 or get gigged in a trafic stop while in possession of a saiga and then tack having an SBR on there. IT is an issue to get with RRA for them and determine that they followed procendures correctly to get the things into the country correctly. If they determine that they followed everything to the T it would be an issue of fixing the policy. This is not something that could in any way be designed to fall back on the consumer. I am not going to be a dick to a field agent, if they want to take a look at my firearm to make sure it is legal, fine. It will be good to see that the govt takes something seriusly. However, I am not going to go out of my way to mail something somewhere that already falls into the letter of the law and is perfectly legal. As for the TX thing, dont think you are a god, start a cult, and keep saigas in there and that probably will not apply to you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 This goes outside the realm of common sense. The same logic that "how are they going to trust you that you fixed it" would be the same logic that would make you think they would come to every person's house with a bushmaster AR to make sure you didnt cut off the 5inch flash hider. Or that they wouldnt visit your house if you had a firearm and a dremel tool because you could saw the barrel off with the drimel tool and how can they trust you not to do that. Big difference here....they "know" these are wrong from the source. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 My 2c-I wouldn't do shit. If I paid for a 19" with a threaded barrel, that's what I would expect or wouldn't take delivery. Second option would be a pollychoke. Third would be to get a 22" and have it cut and threaded. Sooner or later ATF will ink a decission, why are you all trying to second guess something that you may have no control over? I know it sucks to wait for something for so long and have the rug pulled out from under your feet like this, but it is what it is. Everyone thinks Chaney was a dumb shit for taking the shot prematurely, how is this different. Calm down and wait for a decission, weigh your options, then act. YOU DON'T THINK THE BOARD WILL POST ATF's OFFICIAL RESPONSE WHEN IT"S RELEASED???? Geeees. Trust me, being overly emotional will get your ass kicked every time.....wait for the shot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Back to RAAC to have the choke welded on. I know this is a PITA, but if you decide to add the conversion, or add Tony's choke extension then you are able to change the chokes out again. Sure it sucks right now, but the ATF is going to take a few weeks to issue a finding, and if all the guns are fixed by then there really isn't a problem for them to address is there............ Pvt Pyle, If it takes several weeks for an official BATFE finding does that mean all sales and transfers will be frozen during the interim? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pesterbox 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 This goes outside the realm of common sense. The same logic that "how are they going to trust you that you fixed it" would be the same logic that would make you think they would come to every person's house with a bushmaster AR to make sure you didnt cut off the 5inch flash hider. Or that they wouldnt visit your house if you had a firearm and a dremel tool because you could saw the barrel off with the drimel tool and how can they trust you not to do that. You have to consider that .8 of an inch might not be worth the tax money and work load to drive to 10,000 houses to make sure you put a 1 in extention on. It is much easier and much more stable in court to wait for some dumb ass to knock over a 7-11 or get gigged in a trafic stop while in possession of a saiga and then tack having an SBR on there. IT is an issue to get with RRA for them and determine that they followed procendures correctly to get the things into the country correctly. If they determine that they followed everything to the T it would be an issue of fixing the policy. This is not something that could in any way be designed to fall back on the consumer. I am not going to be a dick to a field agent, if they want to take a look at my firearm to make sure it is legal, fine. It will be good to see that the govt takes something seriusly. However, I am not going to go out of my way to mail something somewhere that already falls into the letter of the law and is perfectly legal. As for the TX thing, dont think you are a god, start a cult, and keep saigas in there and that probably will not apply to you. The difference with the 5" Ar15 flashider is that it was legal to start with. The Saiga with a 17.2" barrel isn't. There is no need to argue about this and you can boast about it all you want. When all of this is over, I feel assured all of the boasting will come to a fast end. We shall wait and see. And if you use "common sense" ,you would be trying to get the pins back in that shotgun instead of taking them out. I am through with my comments on this matter.Have a nice day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomovich 0 Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Well.........this IS going to get interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 My 2c-I wouldn't do shit. If I paid for a 19" with a threaded barrel, that's what I would expect or wouldn't take delivery. Second option would be a pollychoke. Third would be to get a 22" and have it cut and threaded. Sooner or later ATF will ink a decission, why are you all trying to second guess something that you may have no control over? I know it sucks to wait for something for so long and have the rug pulled out from under your feet like this, but it is what it is. Everyone thinks Chaney was a dumb shit for taking the shot prematurely, how is this different. Calm down and wait for a decission, weigh your options, then act.YOU DON'T THINK THE BOARD WILL POST ATF's OFFICIAL RESPONSE WHEN IT"S RELEASED???? Geeees. Trust me, being overly emotional will get your ass kicked every time.....wait for the shot I agree 100%....I was just offering suggestions for what I would do if I had allready converted one of the guns in question.....like I said earlier I wouldnt be surprised if they all have to go back.....nuf said no more to add here! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) LOL pester, had you actually read my post you would know that the problem was getting them OUT and the ONE pin that will not go back in is blocked by the oversized pistol grip. All I am saying is there is way to much emotion and paranoia about this. When I read some of the responses I was like wtf. I guess if all you read is horror stories and dont actually deal with any of the stuff you would think it is evil. YEh I would not be surprised if they said they should go back to but I dont see that happening one way or the other. There will alwasy be someone somewhere that got one and has no idea. As far as stuff crashing down, or coming down or whatever you are saying, I dont see how has anything to do with anything at this point. As for political matters, dont post political views unless you want policy and political type response. Not an attack on anyone personally but religion and politics usually cause the hottest debate. So far we have gone through both when we deal with ATF response to this and about Janet Rino killing all of the people down in TX. In the mean time we are discussing this there is probably some happy old man on his farm that just got a saiga to replace his 12 guage. The guy will probably not buy another gun again for a while and will probably ride around with the think behind the seat of his truck for many years until he eventually is creamed by a drunken tean driving too fast while he is driving too slow Edited February 16, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 ...or if he gets his gun "rodded" by the cops during a routine traffic stop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kogashuko 17 Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) LOL I havnt seen anyone around here do that. I am sure it happens some places and probably bigger citys or places that have gun crimes. Here if the firearm looks legal they dont mess with it. I have been stopped a few times for random stupid equipment issues and only cited ones. One time the officer didnt mention my permit, another time he knew I was on my way to court and he said just dont take it into court, and the third time he told me to tell him next time first thing that I was armed. Now if I went to NY state that would be a differetn thing they would probably ask to inspect the firearm and then want to go through my car. Also if someone rob a bank and is driving down the road shooting at the police, once they are stopped they might get the firearm examined. Edited February 16, 2006 by Koga Shuko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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