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leadslinger

m92 pap why

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hmm.  saw on a youtube rifle dynamics was going to offer a set up that will co-witnes.  figured i would ask.

I think there's at least 3 or 4 forward gastube/foregrip mounts (MI, Manticore, Ultimak, etc) that can get 1/3 co-witness with the right sight. 

 

My own preference is to have the optics closer to the eye & away from that much heat soaking.

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If you do go the TWS route and are looking to add a peep as well, take a look at the KEL-TEC SU16B-365 Rear Peep Sight (B model)

 

post-41803-0-53147300-1340312512_thumb.j

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73533-tws-rail-rear-sight-options/?hl=%2Breceived+%2Bthe+%2Bkel-tec+%2Bsu16b-365+%2Brear+%2Bsight+%2Btoday.+%2Btotal+%2Bprice+%2B%26%23036%3B24.99&do=findComment&comment=779444

 

Three reasons to look at it:

 

1.  It costs less

2.  It is metal (not sure what the TWS peep is made of)

3.  It has a screw on both the left and right side of the peep (for securing it to the rail) which will provide windage adjustments at the rear site (TWS peep only has one screw on the one side so all your windage adjustments will be done with the front sight post).

 

http://www.keltecweapons.com/su-16-and-su-22-rifles/su-16-parts/su16b-365-rear-peep-sight-b-model/

 

-bp

Edited by burntpowder
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The only issue I have with the tech sights is you are forced to place them at the back of the TWS dogleg. On AKs using a Warsaw length stock, the aperture is closer to the eye, making it larger and fuzzy. Then again, I wear glasses and that could have something to do with the aperture going fuzzy on me as well.

 

I use the TWS peep and it functions well placed forward on the rail, but they are dang proud of that sight. Alot of money for a small piece of Aluminum with no elevation or windage.

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I actually had a bit of an oddball idea the other day regarding sights for the M92.  Try this Spacehog take a number 10 washer and use a magnet to hold it onto the sight like in the picture and take a look through the hole.  I believe you will find what you are looking for.  

sight idea

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I have been thinking the same idea. Still would like further back on the cover. It looks like the soft is riveted so it should be easy to move. I would like to find one I could experiment with.

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I also have the Stormwerkz rail on my M85 and I'm very pleased with it. If you can operate a drill you can easily install it. No, it doesn't co-witness but if you use a quality optic you won't have to worry about it. I have a Primary Arms advanced micro dot on mine right now. I like it.

 

PS. I hope to get an M92 to go with my M85 in the near future.

post-39271-0-11552500-1432786996_thumb.jpg

Edited by tchick
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... but if you use a quality optic you won't have to worry about it. I have a Primary Arms advanced micro dot on mine right now. I like it.

 

Primary Arms makes great value stuff, but even according to them, they're not good enough to count on for serious use.   You can throw one of these on there for extra insurance and it takes away a lot of the risks of a budget optic going down when you need it.   A quick flip and it's out of the way so you can use your irons.  Plus, if you ever do upgrade to an Aimpoint down the road, you can still use the mount.

 

ARMS #31

 

ARMS-31-2.jpg

 

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I shot my M92 here in Montana at 220yd today and it was dead on with the PA micro. Very pleased. With a tiny bit of holdover (dot zeroed at 50) I was busting rocks consistently. 

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The PA micro and Midwest stuff is appealing but the added weight is a concern. Those set ups look nice and 220 yards sweet.

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I would post a pic or two but what I have done to mine is pretty standard and already shown here by others:

 

- Stormwerkz Rail

- Echo 93 V3/SB

- Hogue Overmold Grip

- SB47

- PA Micro Dot w/ Fixed Base

- Arms Unlimited Quick-Release Lever Mount Conversion Kit (about the only thing I did not see anyone else do..........mancat had suggested this to me in a PM)

 

Still rolling with the original thread protector.  Shot about 120 rounds like this to test function (shot in my hollow in daylight but was in shade) and there was a significant amount of flash but this was expected.  I am not sure if I want to go with a Booster/Shorty Booster or a 4-Piece..........or something else.  Still up in the air on that.

 

Other than a few trigger reset issues that were be caused by the ears of the SB47 not allowing it to reset (easily fixed @ grinder later) I had zero issues.  Fun firearm, that's for sure. 

 

-bp

Edited by burntpowder
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How do you like the AU lever? I need to order one already.

 

Well on the plain fixed base Micro Dot PA is selling these days, I would call it a Quicker-Release Lever rather than a Quick-Release Lever.

 

On all my other Quick-Release accessories (grips and what not) on other firearms......you throw the lever and the accessory comes off.  With this, you throw the lever but sill have to turn the thumb screw (located on the opposite side from the lever) by hand slightly to be able to dismount the optic.  The thumb screw is what you set the tension of the lever with.

 

Anyhow I will look at it some more tomorrow night.  I am not nutting the thing down so that you have to stand on the lever to get it to lock in place........just tight enough that there is resistance when it starts to engage the locked position.

 

-bp

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I would post a pic or two but what I have done to mine is pretty standard and already shown here by others:

 

- Stormwerkz Rail

- Echo 93 V3/SB

- Hogue Overmold Grip

- SB47

- PA Micro Dot w/ Fixed Base

- Arms Unlimited Quick-Release Lever Mount Conversion Kit (about the only thing I did not see anyone else do..........mancat had suggested this to me in a PM)

 

Still rolling with the original thread protector.  Shot about 120 rounds like this to test function (shot in my hollow in daylight but was in shade) and there was a significant amount of flash but this was expected.  I am not sure if I want to go with a Booster/Shorty Booster or a 4-Piece..........or something else.  Still up in the air on that.

 

Other than a few trigger reset issues that were be caused by the ears of the SB47 not allowing it to reset (easily fixed @ grinder later) I had zero issues.  Fun firearm, that's for sure. 

 

-bp

 

 

Well it is all but done.  As you can see went with the 4-Piece FH from CNC.

 

About 5 or 6 coats of Pure Tung Oil on the forend.

 

Forgot to put the sling on for the pic.......no biggie, it's a sling.

 

-bp

post-47413-0-08765500-1438818327_thumb.jpg

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I've been obsessing over an idea I had a few days ago about a potential truck gun and noticed something while surfing the gun porn. The rivets of the front trunnions for the M92 and the M85 seem to be in very different places. I realized that different shaped ammunition will require different parts in the guts of these guns, but can anyone that has both or just familiar enough with both, discuss these differences and whether or not they raise any concerns? And also there seems to be a general consensus that the rear sight just plain sucks, other than the washer idea, or a home made peep sight that I saw somewhere else, has anyone tinkered with them and found anything that works better?

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The Yugo 5.56 rifles (including M85 and M90) use the RPK style trunnion, which is larger/thicker than the AKM style trunnion used in the M92. Though I've never heard an explanation from Zastava, they tend to use RPK trunnions in most of their designs - the M92 and M70 "AB2T" (AKA N-PAP) are the only two I can think of that use the lighter AKM trunnion.

 

In most cases this is because the stamped Zastava AKs are overbuilt in order to handle muzzle-launched grenades, which put a lot of stress on the barrel, trunnion, and receiver. The M85 has never accepted rifle grenades, so it may either be an issue of manufacturing uniformity (M85 shares some parts with 5.56 M90/M21 line), or Zastava may have decided that the additional chamber pressure of 5.56 NATO (some 60,000 psi or above potentially) warranted a stronger bolt locking interface at the trunnion - the RPK trunnion has significantly larger locking lugs than the standard AKM trunnion.

 

The rear sight does suck, but it's par for the course with AK sights. I'm surprised someone hasn't made an aftermarket replacement. I've put an AR aperture up against it and it may be possible to replace the stock sight with one, but I'm not willing to drill the stock dust cover myself, and replacement M92/M85 dust covers are near $150.

 

Although not cheap, the TWS rail and Tech-Sights peep sight for SU16 together in comination will work on the M92/M85, but probably total up to $200 or more. 

Edited by mancat

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I would much rather have over built than under built, so that's nice. Thanks for the detailed response. I would total be willing to try to replace it with an AR rear sight, or maybe even cut and solder the AR sights to the already attached rear sight. Next question is that I know the front sight on those things has two posts that flip back and forth for closer or longer shots, but it also appears that from side views that it uses a standard AK sight drum. Is it safe to assume that the front sight could be replaced with a AK front sight? It's important to me that a truck gun have night sights, I like the XS big dots and things like that. I've seen where some people have taken these guns and replaced them with the weld on HK type sights, but I kind of like where the rear sight is on the dust cover and would be interested in using the HK's rear sight drum, what are the odds that the HK front sight would be close enough to be sighted in properly?

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The front sight post is just a standard AK post/drum

 

The flip-up sight is a "low light" sight, I guess you could say. Normally Yugo/Zastava AKs have tritium vial flip-up night sights in both the front and rear sights. Unfortunately the PAP series don't come with the vials installed, but it appears that both the factory front and rear sights on the PAP M92/M85 can probably be drilled out for a vial - the vials are very small and you can buy them here in the US.

 

You could probably also clean out the factory white enamel from the small divots in the sights, and replace it with a quality phosphorescent paint, but obviously this wouldn't help a lot if the gun was kept in a case.

 

Believe it or not you can still get radium paint if you look hard enough. My boss has an ancient bottle of it sitting around that he found in an old clock.

 

A number of virgin parts kits came into the US a few years back with all of the tritium parts intact, but so far as I know nobody has sold them separately. 

Edited by mancat
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My cousin's one had the vials. Not very bright, but I was impressed to see any of that given the price point. BigSal's didn't have the vials.

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Btw, tritium vials in rice grain sizes can now be easily had for ~$6 each.

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I also read a post from Two Rivers (well known Yugo builders) who have replaced tritium vials in newer Zastava sights with luminous fishing line, then filled up the cavity with clear enamel.

 

I used Martha Steward-branded phosphorescent (lol) from Michaels' crafts and clear enamel to redo to the sights on my CZ-82s.

Edited by mancat
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The luminous fishing line must be the type that absorbs light. If I wanted something of that type, I'd just go with these: http://www.nitesiters.com/Nitesiters_Handgun_Night_Sights.html

 

They are a lot brighter than paints, etc. will get you. 

 

It looks like the Etsy shop that was selling 0.95x 3 mm tritium vials for ~$6 each is gone. Shame. I should have placed an order earlier.

 

They seem to still be selling them on knife making sites. I gave up on trying to use the marketplace on candlepowerforums.

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If you do go the TWS route and are looking to add a peep as well, take a look at the KEL-TEC SU16B-365 Rear Peep Sight (B model)

 

post-41803-0-53147300-1340312512_thumb.j

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73533-tws-rail-rear-sight-options/?hl=%2Breceived+%2Bthe+%2Bkel-tec+%2Bsu16b-365+%2Brear+%2Bsight+%2Btoday.+%2Btotal+%2Bprice+%2B%26%23036%3B24.99&do=findComment&comment=779444

 

Three reasons to look at it:

 

1.  It costs less

2.  It is metal (not sure what the TWS peep is made of)

3.  It has a screw on both the left and right side of the peep (for securing it to the rail) which will provide windage adjustments at the rear site (TWS peep only has one screw on the one side so all your windage adjustments will be done with the front sight post).

 

http://www.keltecweapons.com/su-16-and-su-22-rifles/su-16-parts/su16b-365-rear-peep-sight-b-model/

 

-bp

i like that peep sight..i might use it on my mini draco

 

post-16872-0-35206100-1444759298.jpg

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