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jddryheat

Carrier rubbing too heavy on hammer??

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First time post and I'd really hoped my virgin experience would be a picture of my complete S12 conversion, along with a couple ideas or "tips to contribute.  Basically wanting to give back for all the great information that I've had access to.  I do have a nifty plan for converting a smoker to an oven for paint curing and as well I've added some set screws to my G2 hammer to adjust pre and over travel.  I know both ideas have been discussed on the site already, but I think I may have a slightly different approach.  Again, hoped to load all this in my first post, but unfortunately I've hit upon a problem that has me a bit stumped and I can't complete the build and move on to paint.  Once I have this all together, refinished, and functioning properly, then I can feel relatively assured that my ideas are worth sharing.

 

I have thouroughly reviewed and researched this site (many times over actually) as well as hitting all the videos on Youtube (some for better, some for worse), and finally of course the excellent videos provided by CSS.  I've not seen the problem I'm having specifically mentioned before and I'm hesitant to take the obvious (?) approach of removing metal without getting some advice and direction.

 

My S12, like most, when stock would fire heavy loads but couldn't get out of it's own way with anything low brass.  I anticipated this so it wasn't worrisome, but as many have said on here before, you need to establish a baseline of performance. 

 

I knew I would polish all the internals so that went without saying.  I performed a mild re-profiling of the bolt and hammer.  Upon inspection of the gas ports I found that I have 4 of proper size, with 1 being ever so slightly obstructed. I removed the gas block and performed a "semi D" modification to uncover that port and also added 1 more of approximately .78 in size.  I will be running almost exclusively low brass (2-3/4 dram) loads (read that as "cheap") and I also have the Tac 47 auto plug to install.  I really believe over-gassing will be a non-issue.

 

After polishing everything internally that rubs (metal on metal), I've been cycling it by hand and I'm not satisfied with what I'm feeling and seeing.  The hammer is rubbing very hard on the bottom of the bolt carrier, to the point of leaving marks on both - the mark on the carrier is actually tactile to where I can catch it with my thumb nail.  This is after hand cycling it maybe 20-30 times.  When the bolt is pulled back by hand and slooooowly released, it will actually hang up on the hammer.  In other words, I can make it hang up without a lot of effort.  Certainly not what I expected with everything polished to almost a mirror finish.

 

I've watched as the carrier is pulled to the rear and impacts the hammer.  Currently it lowers the hammer much further than necessary to enable the disconnect to properly grab ahold.  My thought is maybe to remove a bit of material from the bottom of the carrier, but again this is where I'm uncertain and not comfortable.  As I mentioned above I have performed a minor re-profile of the hammer, so the aggressive "corners" are gone. 

 

I'm really stuck on this one as I can't find any videos where this was a problem that was addressed.  It certainly seems as if it would be as simple as removing some material from either/both the carrier and/or hammer.  The hammer I'm not terribly worried about - I can always get another.  However the carrier is another issue altogether.

 

In advance, thank you for any and all suggestions and I'll report back on what I try and what works.

 

Thanks!

 

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The hammer will get beat up. It is supposed to be softer than the carrier. If it gets to a point where you have drag, you could peen it back into shape and dress it lightly. Nothing you have shown relating to hammer wear is a problem.


unnecessary hammer movement is as you surmise extra work. Ideally, the hammer face needs to be an angle that strikes squarely on the firing bolt tail , and is pushed about 3/32" or more below the disconnector. YMMV. Extra movement up and down is extra work. Your face shape should have a little extra meat on it for wear, a flat square at the strike area, and gradual ramping on either side. It does not need to be a continuous ramp, rather the carrier should push it down to a level where it should stay nearly motionless for the full stroke in both directions.

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From my observation of this same issue, it looks like the G2 hook needs a bit more meat on the underside of the catch surface so it would hold the hammer down further. Then the carrier would slide forward freely without having to depress the hammer again.

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I appreciate both comments and suggestions.  I understand that the hammer will take some abuse and that doesn't unreasonably worry me.  What is a concern is that through only 20 or 30 hand cycles I now have a discernable "groove" (slight as it may be) in the underside of my carrier.  I do need to investigate further on my end and make sure something beyond the obvious hammer and carrier interaction isn't at fault. 

 

However, with that said.

Gunfun's statement about the hammer being pushed 3/32" below the disconnecter, and then Heartbreaker also mentioning that perhaps the G2 hooks aren't holding the hammer down far enough to alleviate undue pressure on the carrier during the forward stroke has me thinking.  I understand that the carrier will singularly be responsible for resetting the hammer into the disconnect on the rearward stroke.  No getting around that, just reducing friction through reprofiling and polishing.  However, the forward stroke of the carrier shouldn't again be pushing the hammer down - should it? That could be my problem.

 

My work on the G2 hooks (both disconnect and trigger) consisted only of an aggressive polish using black and then red compound, with the goal of eliminating casting marks.  I wouldn't think this would removed sufficient material to cause a problem in this area. 

 

I will investigate tonight or this W/E.  I have a Saiga .410 that I've converted previously (and had no such problem) - perhaps I can switch the triggers and see if the problem persists???

 

Thanks again for the thoughts and suggestions.  I'll be back (I borrowed that!)

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  However, the forward stroke of the carrier shouldn't again be pushing the hammer down - should it? That could be my problem.

 

 

That will always happen a little. I suggest not trying to reinvent a reliable and safe trigger system.

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Definitely not looking to make a better wheel.  I know from experience that my post-ban AK's with the polished G2's are way ahead of my pre-ban with the com-bloc triggers. 

 

OK, got my Saiga .410 that I had converted previously and checked the action of that carrier, then compared it to the S12.  Pretty close.  My .410 wasn't polished to the same level, but then again I've read many times over that past a certain point it really only makes the part look pretty.

 

I think my paranoia was just in full bloom, or maybe I was expecting too much insofar as reduced drag.  I'll proceed with the build and follow up once I get it out the desert and starting putting some rounds through it.  My moly came in the mail from Norrell's today so I've got a new drive to get the "build" completed and painted.  First opportunity to apply moly, first time to try my converted smoker/oven out as well, so got a lot of "firsts" in the next couple weeks.

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating; thanks for the help and guidance.

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