CGuns 3 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Okay, interesting topic. Post what your S-12 is stocked with and why. For me, I keep an S-12 out for home defense. I have a 5 round magazine in the gun and an 8 round magazine rigged to the stock. I am running the 5 round magazine in the gun, because it is easier to move with the gun with the 5 rounder. Top round is #4 buck - Figure the first shot with that will give me more chances to hit a threat, with 27 pellets. This is PMC brand. Have been very happy with it. Next two rounds are Winchester Super X 00 Buckshot, 9 pellets- Bigger pellets, nice pattern, good for finishing off anything. Last 2 rounds are Remington Slugs- Just in case I need extra range or penetration, like through car bodies, etc... The 8 round magazine I have stacked withg 3" Winchester Super X magnum 00 buckshot loads and .50 caliber sabot slugs. What is your load out and why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 My loadout consists of 8 rounds of Remington Express 00 buck, clamped to a 5 round mag full of Winchester Ranger 1oz slugs. The 8 round is in the gun. If the gun has to go outdoors for whatever reason, the configuration is switch around to 8 rounds of slugs in the mag and 5 rounds of buck clamped alongside. Keeping different loads in different magazines keeps things simple for load switching. In combat, its hard enough to remember how many testicles you have, to say nothing of how many shots you fired or whatnot. The clamped mags are a little hard to reach around with the off hand, but a vertical foregrip really improves handling for these front-heavy, bulky weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roadkill45 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 My loadout consists of 8 rounds of Remington Express 00 buck, clamped to a 5 round mag full of Winchester Ranger 1oz slugs. The 8 round is in the gun. If the gun has to go outdoors for whatever reason, the configuration is switch around to 8 rounds of slugs in the mag and 5 rounds of buck clamped alongside. Keeping different loads in different magazines keeps things simple for load switching. In combat, its hard enough to remember how many testicles you have, to say nothing of how many shots you fired or whatnot. The clamped mags are a little hard to reach around with the off hand, but a vertical foregrip really improves handling for these front-heavy, bulky weapons. FGJ, how do you "clamp" your mag to the side, please? I have the 20 gauge, 5 rounder in the gun itself, #3, slug, #3 etc. thanx in advance for the info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AKOK 4 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I keep 7 rounds in my win 1300 pump. 4 rounds of #4 shot followed by 3 rounds of 00 buck. I like the 4 shot to help prevent over penetration....like to have the 00 to clean up with. Nothing like the sound of a pump shotgun being racked to scare the shiat out of an intruder Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I keep one mag loaded with 3" slugs in my s12 (right now they are remington domers), and one 20 round mag in my sar loaded with HP with 5 tracer rounds evenly mixed in there. I figure I wont need much more than that in an immediate emergency, and the tracer rounds would be a good way of getting the point across to a crook to get the hell out of dodge, and still will stop someone if I didnt use them for warning shots. I load with slugs because I believe in the shock of the round over buckshot on an armored home intruder, and the HP in the rifle is the same reasoning, and with all of the destructive type of shooting I do, I also like the wall penetration on cement block walls over the ar15. "you cant hide there asshole" is my thinking on that one. the ar15 will destroy a block wall almost as good, but the rounds have very unpredictible exit paths out of walls or other obstacles, and if I have to shoot someone through a wall, I want the rounds to go where Im pointing them, not into next week. If I owned an m14 or something like the saiga 308, I would use that instead. ...why be outgunned? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I've invested too much $ into the Saiga to have it out of its safe. However, it is my back-up gun. I figure the Mossberg 500 with 8 rounds of 9-pellet 00 buck will keep any intruders at bay until I can unleash the Saiga. In case I need extra penetration I have 5 slugs in a sleeve on the stock of the Mossy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
piggsy 0 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I alternate 2 3/4 hollowpoint slugs and 00 buck in a Mossberg 500a, because I don't have an 8 round mag for the Saiga. Tracers for HD? Wow. I would burn my house down with those. Grass fires happen more than rain, where I live. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I wonder what a tracer round would do to a human torso. HMMMMMM pretty interesting. Might cause alot of extra trauma. Might fry alot of tissue. BVAMP thats a great idea. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steph 5 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Right now I have my Rem 870 with 3 rounds of #4 buck, then 2 rounds of 00 buck, followed by 2 slugs. My thinking is that when an altercation begins, one probably has little time or distance, so you want to go with the most hit probablilty, hence the #4 which has more pellets. If the fight continues, then one has the 00 and slugs as you can get to cover or concealment, and possibly have greater distance and time, or if you need the slugs, you can just jack out the other shells. This is what I have in the squad at work, and once I get some hi-cap mags for the Saiga, it will replace the 870, but probably with the same plan; maybe 4 #4, 3 00, 3 slugs. I can keep extra mags with just slugs or sabots if needed. I never have believed in the idea of racking a shell to scare off an assailant. I think you should be ready to go as soon as you think you have a problem, and you might not want to give away your position. Also, under the stress of fight-or-flight, it would be easy to short-stroke your action, and just think you have a shell in there. Lastly, the courts (at least here) do not look fondly upon warning shots. They tend to think you should only be firing if you are defending someone, and if you don't feel justified in taking them down, you shouldn't be shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 you know what a cop has and that it is real. you dont know that that crazy looking thing some white guy is pointing at you is real though, and you might be able to hold an intruder at bay IF you have a situation where you CAN fire a warning shot. Id rather scare someone off that looks to be armed with a high powered rifle than kill them. But I still have the option to kill with the round, without jacking shells or any of that time consuming stuff. thats probably why the police have to fire so many rounds in the engagements we all hear about. just do more snap firing drills and you wont need buckshot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CGuns 3 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Right now I have my Rem 870 with 3 rounds of #4 buck, then 2 rounds of 00 buck, followed by 2 slugs. My thinking is that when an altercation begins, one probably has little time or distance, so you want to go with the most hit probablilty, hence the #4 which has more pellets. If the fight continues, then one has the 00 and slugs as you can get to cover or concealment, and possibly have greater distance and time, or if you need the slugs, you can just jack out the other shells. This is what I have in the squad at work, and once I get some hi-cap mags for the Saiga, it will replace the 870, but probably with the same plan; maybe 4 #4, 3 00, 3 slugs. I can keep extra mags with just slugs or sabots if needed. I never have believed in the idea of racking a shell to scare off an assailant. I think you should be ready to go as soon as you think you have a problem, and you might not want to give away your position. Also, under the stress of fight-or-flight, it would be easy to short-stroke your action, and just think you have a shell in there. Lastly, the courts (at least here) do not look fondly upon warning shots. They tend to think you should only be firing if you are defending someone, and if you don't feel justified in taking them down, you shouldn't be shooting. AGREED! My gun is loaded similarly to yours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) We use the wife's S-.410 because she is alone here at times. Also the .410 with underfolder folded is handy in confined spaces such as indoors. We load 4 #3buckshot followed by 4 slugs. Te action of the S-.410 is fast enough that if the shot is not doing the trick, the the slugs will be in the air BEFORE the hulls from the buck hit the ground. Backup for the S-.410 is a 9mm auto. 2mags loaded and ready. Warning shots are just something to let an asshole prosecutor screw you over. Buckshot to the kneecap is the non lethal way to disable anything short of a PCP freak, and even they will be severly limited in mobility. That said- YOU NEED a DOG! She let's us know if something is happening a long time before we would know. G O B Edited February 13, 2006 by G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 That said- YOU NEED a DOG! She let's us know if something is happening a long time before we would know. Got THREE!!! And with two beagles... you *KNOW* when they know something is going on..." wuff...wufff.... WUFFFF!!! BAAAUUUURRRRR!!!!! BAAAUURR!!!!!!!!!BAAAAARRRROOOO!!!!!! BAAAAARRRRROOOOOOOOO!!!!!! " LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) FGJ, how do you "clamp" your mag to the side, please? I have the 20 gauge, 5 rounder in the gun itself, #3, slug, #3 etc. thanx in advance for the info. I modified an M-14 magazine clamp (or two) to clamp the 5 rounder and 8 rounder together. OR two 5s, or two 8s, or whatever. Also, for the record, even though I love the S-12, the gun I sleep with is the 870. I like to tinker with my S12, which means its not always in working condition. Even when it is, it has had my heathen hand upon it. But I know the 870 will work, and work forever, and work every time! As far as the doctrine of combat and your rules of engagement go, I respectfully submit that you do NOT get the off the internet, but rather from a competent professional instructor. What I've been taught runs directly contrary to a lot of the advice one gets off this board and others. Edited February 13, 2006 by ForGreatJustice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steph 5 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 --> QUOTE(G O B @ Feb 12 2006, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Buckshot to the kneecap is the non lethal way to disable anything short of a PCP freak, and even they will be severly limited in mobility. G O B I would think buckshot to the kneecap is probably lethal anyway, it will just take about ten minutes for them to exsanguinate, during which time he can still pull a trigger. (or are you going to render aid once he's down?) Of course, if he lives that loser you kneecapped is going to sue you for pain & suffering, "lost wages" from the fact that he can no longer ply the trade of home invasion; and his lawyer is going to ask, "if you didn't feel in enough danger to be justified in killing him, why did you fire a shotgun at him?!" I'm no attorney, but I believe in just about every state it comes down to: if you feel you or someone else is in imminent danger of great bodily harm, you are justified in using lethal force to immediately stop them. Stopping them means that you put as much force into their body in the fastest time that they cannot pull a trigger in response. Anything more or less, and the lawyers and the media are going to try and screw ya over. Besides, hitting a kneecap under stress would be quite a challenge for anybody. Heads and chests are larger and don't move as much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I agree.. presumed armed ...centermass & head shots are the most de-capacitating areas....shooting to wound...especially in the heat of the moment for defense??..Hmmm...Kneecaps??..Only if ya think ya wann'a interogate/ask em a few questions before they bleed to death..shotguns ..up close & personal..or even @ bedroom distance tend to open alot of arterial veins..from personal experience..:-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 frangible and glasier-type rounds work fine if you want everybody dead. yeh, how can we kill joe public. right on starlynx. right on. Ill stick to my slugs and rifle rounds. you can keep your buckshot. why dont you tell us about the people that do home invasions and that they wear the same shit you wear yo work? why? because you dont want to get killed, and thats cool. I wouldnt either. but you know goddamn well all those guys have body armor on TOO, and BUCKSHOT AINT DOING SHIT to them. you know, the people that break in in a group and take a pair of vice grips to your thumbs to make you tell them where the money is? Im sure you have heard of that happening...nationwide... but I guess I wouldnt give two shits either, seeing the state of the public world out there. hell, just kill everyone that isnt a public servant, and it'll be a nice country again. you can probably get away with it. will one of you other moderators shut me up for a week please? thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 frangible and glasier-type rounds work fine if you want everybody dead. yeh, how can we kill joe public. right on starlynx. right on. Ill stick to my slugs and rifle rounds. you can keep your buckshot. why dont you tell us about the people that do home invasions and that they wear the same shit you wear yo work? why? because you dont want to get killed, and thats cool. I wouldnt either. but you know goddamn well all those guys have body armor on TOO, and BUCKSHOT AINT DOING SHIT to them. you know, the people that break in in a group and take a pair of vice grips to your thumbs to make you tell them where the money is? Im sure you have heard of that happening...nationwide... but I guess I wouldnt give two shits either, seeing the state of the public world out there. hell, just kill everyone that isnt a public servant, and it'll be a nice country again. you can probably get away with it. will one of you other moderators shut me up for a week please? thank you. Geez!..Are ya gonn'a try ta piss on this thread,too??.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 . why dont you tell us about the people that do home invasions and that they wear the same shit you wear yo work? How much body armor are they wearing (level)? Did you say as much as a regular cop (lite armor)? Where is this occuring most often : Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, Florida, California, New York? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I am reworking the post I just put up, and leaving the first one, so I dont hear any whining about post editing. heres my second lungful. I dont like your attitude tword me starlynx, thats all. I will be twice as rude to you as you are to me, and thats how that is. sorry folks. most of the home invasions that *I* have heard about in *MY* area, the guys doing the deed wear ***vests***. kinda like what you wear to work. Im not enabling anyone to turn anything on you, but I sure as hell am not taking buckshot at ten feet with no choke to a bad guy on crack PCP or meth in a bullet proof vest. hes going to keep coming. nope, slugs and high powered rifle rounds for me, thanks. not dealing with your average crook, and most the rest, I can beat into a coma before the ambulance gets there to pick them up. If I need to use a gun to defend myself, it will be a bad thing happening, and chances are, I will need more than some pistol bullet or frangible round to stop them. what about terrorists? do you plan on shooting them 4 times with buckshot as they ride by guns blasing at 80 mph in flak vests? come on now. If I only have one shot, its going to count, and isnt going to be a load of pellets. you are giving yourself a weakness in that you have to get a delay before you act. that could end up like the california bank shootout that got all the guns banned in california. but as usual, I dont know a damn thing, and Im some kind of piece of shit. never mind me. I dont know WHAT the hell im talking about. I dont kill people for a living. I wouldnt know why I should wound anyone or why I shouldnt be prepared to defeat body armor. THE CROOKS WONT EVEN THINK TO USE THAT. expeditionx: any crook that premeditates a serious string of criminal activity makes thier living off of it, and probably ALL seek body armor. how many get it, is probably the answer you are looking for, I think. I dont think it is occuring anyhwere more than in other areas, to be honest. its just what type of criminal thinks it through enough to come to that conclusion, that to go rob some guy of a large gun collection or a safe with money in it, that you might get shot at and need to be protected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CGuns 3 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 A shot to the torso with a 1oz slug is likely to break ribs, etc...if the guy is wearing a vest. For me, the motivation to load slug is one of penetration through cover, such as a car body, etc.... I still believe buckshot to be the load of choice against vest-wearing threats. If the first shot doesn't take him down, I am either moving my point of aim slightly up or slightly down. A load of buck to the face or to the groin will drop anyone, guaranteed. The other thing to consider is that even if you are trained, (which I AM), and you get into a bad situation (Which I have been), you are so keyed up on adrenalin that for you to get yourself into the "slug shooting zone" might take valuable seconds that could cost you your life. That means catching the front sight and pulling the trigger. You might not have time to do that. Buckshot and such is ideal because you point and go. Even if you don't catch a front sight picture, your chances are still good that you are going to get a hit. That is what counts. DO NOT COUNT ON EVERY SHOT BEING AN AIMED SHOT. I am sorry, but all the sight alignment bullsh*t goes out the window once the SHTF. That is why I advocate point shooting for close-quarters, especially inside a residence- with a handgun, and practicing proper sight alignment, etc...for shots past 10-15 yards. You need both. The other thing to think about is, WHAT IF THERE IS MORE THAN ONE THREAT????? That will get you going. Trust me. It isn't nice when it is three on one. You would not have time to aim for all three when they are point blank. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Libertymarch 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 88 20" BBL 8/9 shot with a tacstar pistol grip, and sideshell holder. I prefer remington 3" magnum #1 buck plated shot its excellent inside a house and wont over penetrate. In the side shell holder sit 4 remington magnum sluggers. I figure if the perp takes cover I can still blast him away to hell with the slugs. Just the sound of these little bastards is scary. According to the box of sluggers they are 1,760 fps out of a 30" test barrel. Thats pretty fast for 1 ounce. I dont know if they will blast through a car door, but I know in a pinch they'll punch through glass, tires, ect. Wearing a bullet proof vest, ive heard it said a person can still be killed just by the concussion of the round. I have heard the story that if you hit directly on the heart on a vest the force can stop its beating. Im not sure this is true but even if its not I'm sure it would be painful as hell to get hit with a slug while wearing a vest. I have a link for everybody here with specialty shotshells from HI-VEL inc. They have a buck and ball shell that is interesting a .69 caliber round ball followed by 6 00 pellets. They also have the mace powder shell if you dont want to kill the bastard. HI-VEL specialty shotshells Silas L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I would think that even good head gear (armor) cant stop buck shot at 1300 fps. Anyone know otherwise? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Helmet with level 2 face shield. $499.00 http://www.interamer.net/index.asp?PageAct...PROD&ProdID=186 A slug would crash through the visor. Heres what a slug will do to Polycast ( cast acrylic sheet ). It is 1 1/4 inches thick http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot6.htm Heres wha a slug will do to Level IIIA Armor Major trauma behind the unpunctured material. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot16.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Veen 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 The problem I have with stacking different loads in a magazine is that most people go about it like, "I'll make the first round buck, so when I fire, I have a better chance to hit and wound. When he gets tacked and ducks for cover, if he's still firing, I'll use three hollow-point slugs to blast through the furniture at him, and then I'll load the last one with a conical slug, so that if they get in their car for more firepower, I can easily blow straight through any door panels or whatnot." In REALITY, it's going to go something like this: "So I got kinda drunk and crashed on the couch lastnight. Someone was banging at the back door, so I got up, stubbed my toe on the goddamn lamp, and grabbed my pistol and ran upstairs where I left my phone and pants like an idiot. I then grabbed the trusty Saiga-12, looked around for a phone, couldn't find it, and went back downstairs after racking the bolt and forgetting I had the buck in there, having to stack it back on top of the mag. So I go down, and I see this guy beating in my window with a baseball bat. He tumbles in right as I fire, causing me to send a slug through the last good pane in that window. He shit his pants and dove off down the hall, so I fired at where he was, but the buckshot got stuck in the solid steel door I had installed to separate the upstairs and downstairs. So now I'm hearing shots, I peek my head down and see he's spraying ammo up the stairs at me, and his gun just jammed. Not even remembering what the fuck was left in the gun, I just sprayed the remaining ammo at him. Two slugs to the lungs dropped him, and that third conical slug blew the everlasting shit out of my hot water heater two rooms away, causing the place to flood, and bringing me to you, Mr. Plumber. Can you fix my shit?" Well, maybe not exactly like that, but your whole tactical plan of picking off targets through doors and darkness and other stuff is going to fall apart like nothing when it really comes around. Personally I keep the mags loaded with buck for home defense, and slugs when it's in the car. I'd rather NOT send buckshot all the shit over an open and populated area if I can avoid it, and I'd rather NOT send slugs out of my house and into my neighbor's house, making him wonder why all his vases and collector's Elvis plates are mysteriously breaking all around him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I am reworking the post I just put up, and leaving the first one, so I dont hear any whining about post editing. heres my second lungful. I dont like your attitude tword me starlynx, thats all. I will be twice as rude to you as you are to me, and thats how that is. Read the "POLICE" thread..& thats how THAT is..:-) Back to the Hone Def w/sg subject... I would think that a lot would depend on your own living quarters..For instance...are there other members of your family in the Household/apt,etc..Consideration of penetration ....walls..etc..& possible collateral damage.. But..ya know if your like BV..& expect ROBOCOP with a 6" thick kevlar body suit from head to toe to come crashing into your home...well geez!!...I suppose depleted Uranium ammo would be a GO'FER!!..That way you could smoke your own house ..all your neighbors within a 20 mile radius..Kind'a "Killem all let GAWD sort em out type thing... Sorry..couldn't resist...:-) On a more serious thought....iI would think that whatever you are most comfortable with shooting & taking down the opposition would be what to use Personally...If 16 to 30 rds of blue tip 9mm don't stop it..I'm get'n the hell out of it's way... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 If you expect to have to defend against armored home invaders, I wouldnt use any shotgun. I dont think you can rely on penetration of the slugs through a vest. Maybee some of the high velocity sabots would work but you arent going to have enough shots to be sure. You would need at least a 7.62x39 or better a 308. Remember also that the high velocity shotgun loads also recoil pretty hard even in a Saiga. For a home defense gun kept loaded also keep in mind that the Saiga will deform the first two rounds after a period of time. I have some S&B 00 buck loads that have a top wad and roll crimp. After a couple of days the wad was loose and the shell probably would not have fed right. The slugs seem to be no problem. I left mine loaded for a month and the first two rounds were deformed but not much and fed ok. Still, I wouldnt leave the mag in the gun for home defense. If I had to use a shotgun for home defense, I would use the Federal Tactical or some other low recoil buckshot load. Recoil is a factor especially with a light pump gun. If the first shot with buckshot has no effect then a throat or groin shot comes next. I currently use a Mossberg pump with ghost ring sights. Its about the best pump gun out of the box for the money. The ghost ring sights make accurate hits with slugs and buckshot a lot easier. I havent tested my S12 with buckshot yet but the Federal tactical load would be my choice for that gun also if it functioned ok. For slugs, the Wolf loads have light recoil and would be fine. The #4 buck load look s good on paper. We used them for a while when I was a fed but soon switched back to OO. It was found to be good only for about 10 to 15 yards due to lack of penetration. Just my .02. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
expeditionx 1 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Level 3 plate inserts will stop : 7.62 mm NATO USM.BALL M80 150 grains projectile @ 2750 ft/sec 5.56 mm NATO USM.BALL M855 62 grains projectile @ 3050 ft/sec 5.56 mm NATO USM.BALL M193 55 grains projectile @ 3250 ft/sec and/or lesser threats. If they have that kind of armor, shooting a home invaders chest with a 7.62x39 or any of the above is not very effective. Head shots with buck shot and slugs might be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 I keep a hand full of 00 buck shot and an 18" barrel Remington 870 home defense model by my bed. I don't keep it loaded because I have 4 kids. Once they get a little older I will have to move the ammo somewhere where they cant get there hands on it. I live in a house that was built in the 1800's. It has logs inside of the walls which are then covered by Tung&Groove boards, and sheetrock. Because of that I don't really worry about over penetration. They just passed a new law here so the intruder's no longer have to be inside the house before you can defend yourself. You can also stop them while they are fleeing. So if they make it back out of the house alive I will grab the AK on the way out the front door after them. With this new law as long as they are anywhere on your property you can gun them down. The law states that you are automaticaly innocent unless they can prove you did something illegal. If they are dead that will be kinda hard. This new law should help deture at least some of the crime here in Mississippi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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