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GregB72

1919 Issues...

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I've got an AKDAL 1919XN that I'd been trying to get to run.  I got one of the 5 rounders stuck in it.  In a moment of frustration and anger I took a hammer to it.  It's not stuck anymore, but I cracked/broke the polymer lower, no surprise.  I've talked to Tooth and Nail and he's got a replacement lower and can fit the mags I couldn't get to run.  It looks like it'll cost me @$200 to $250 to fix my mistake and have a running gun.  I was wondering if you guys think it's worth it or should I sell if for parts and try a Vepr 12?  If I part it out what do you think it'd bring in cash wise?

 

GregB

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you may want to take that hammer and knock yourself upside the head with it and see if you can get your brain working……haha.gif  constructive humor.

Seriously????

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The vepr would survive a hammer, I suppose. As would Csspecs mags (but they won't feed until you hammer the dents back out.)

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That's part of my issue, the entire lower split because it's freakin' plastic.  Not willing to in invest in an aluminum replacement.  If, IF, I rebuild this, it'll be with the stock/factory lower.

 

GregB

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That's part of my issue, the entire lower split because it's freakin' plastic.  Not willing to in invest in an aluminum replacement.  If, IF, I rebuild this, it'll be with the stock/factory lower.

 

GregB

 

 

Annnnnnd you hit it with a hammer? shocked.gif

 

I would recommend replacing with aluminum but if that's not an option then I'd go with a stock polymer and keep it away from my hammer collection. 

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It was my favorite hammer, but I'm not stupid, I hit the metal mag with the hammer not the polymer lower. Duh..(LOL)

 

After removing tongue from cheek:

 

Not sure I want to spend that much on it. Not much 3 gun around here. It'll primarily b a range gun. Good to know that you like the modified 1919 better than the Veper 12. Can you elaborate on why?

 

 

GregB

Edited by GregB72

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And they feed 1200 FPS ammo too, so imagine what they would do if the russian was sober.

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The optics mounting on the 1919 is vastly superior to that of the Vepr.  The Vepr dust cover moves too much to hold a zero for accurate slug shooting.

A left side charging handle is way easier to put on the 1919.  Not an issue if you're a lefty of course, but as a righty I hate reaching over or under the gun to run the bolt.

The mags are cheaper for the 1919.  Yes you can get SGM mags for cheap, but the tab for the mag catch breaks on those, and they'll drop out of the gun if you clamp two mags together as demonstrated by Russell here: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2014/06/15/vepr-12-follow-up-magazines-and-slug-accuracy/

 

The 1919 isn't without its quirks though.  The drive block failure I had at Ironman pissed me off enough that I haven't even touched it since, even though I have a shiny new T&N drive block sitting on my desk.  It does need slightly hotter ammo than the Vepr to run reliably.

My biggest bitch is having to take the stock off and then use a big allen wrench to disassemble the stupid thing.  That's the one thing the Vepr really has over the 1919.  It just comes apart like a krinkov.

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And they feed 1200 FPS ammo too, so imagine what they would do if the russian was sober.

We shoot 1145's with a mid barrel comp, almost exclusively unless target arrays dictate something heavier.

However we have setup our competitions guns for this .

 

All the Match guns we've tested will run 1200's right out of the box, and most will run 1145's at about 100 rounds.

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I like my MKA so much I never even considered a Vepr. Which is strange for me considering I'm a AK guy.

I don't own an AR nor do I want one.  My friend has a Saiga and he has let me shoot it. The Saiga is a nice gun for sure

but my MKA feels more refined and precise…. at least after I rebuilt the whole thing  biggrin.png…..a stock MKA feels like a toy.

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I'm an AK guy as well so I bought the Vepr 12 first.  Only reason I bought the MKA 1919 was they were only $399 at Centerfire Systems.  I thought that was a great price.  Only regret is that I should've bought a 2nd one for spare parts.

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Aside from the bolt. and upper…….T&N has every upgrade part you will need, and SAS makes the best lower in the business.032.gif

No need for a second MKA for parts.. If you need to replace parts you want to replace with better heavy duty parts not the same stock junk.

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And they feed 1200 FPS ammo too, so imagine what they would do if the russian was sober.

We shoot 1145's with a mid barrel comp, almost exclusively unless target arrays dictate something heavier.

However we have setup our competitions guns for this .

 

All the Match guns we've tested will run 1200's right out of the box, and most will run 1145's at about 100 rounds.

 

 

or this

 

 

What model do you have ? Magnum, Pre-XN, XN, or Match ?

 

 

High brass isn't necessary, it is the weight of the shot 1 1/8 minimum, and the velocity 1300 fps or higher that is what cycles the action.

 

DO NOT try and use the cheapest ammo out there. I have yet to find an MKA that won't run on decent ammo. It may take a few mags before it runs 100% but by 20 rounds it should be running good.

 

Make sure the gun is oiled, the majority of guns that we get that "don't run" have zero oil in them.

 

 

?

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Well pointed out GUNFUN.

I tried a MKA, CRAP

I tried a BR99 ran 1oz all day from new, even tired 24g steel shot, no problem.

I posted on this site & got shot to pieces. Why? T&N + Firebird Don't make parts for them or sell them.

By the way my MKA / BR99  20rd DRUM is still working 100%

Can't wait for the response.

Edited by Grima
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Grima gotta always rain on our parade deadhorse.gif  

The funny thing is the gun he praises is 98% the same gun he puts down…...021.gif

SHHH, don't wanna ruin it for the rest of usJohnboy.gif

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Well, as an update, the 1919 is in the process of being repaired and made to function, we'll see what the damage is and the verdict afterwards.

 

What is this 20 round mag of which you speak?

 

Also,  how common is the drive block issue?  

 

I'm primarily using this as a "fun" gun for range use and maybe a side match at local IDPA match (if they'll let me shoot it, and just put my score at the bottom of the list, I'm cool with that).

 

Thanks,

Edited by GregB72

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Tooth and Nail sells a 24 round mega mag.  It's nearly a standing monopod but if you absolutely need to clear a birdshot only stage at a match without reloading, it's a hot ticket.

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Well, as an update, the 1919 is in the process of being repaired and made to function, we'll see what the damage is and the verdict afterwards.

 

What is this 20 round mag of which you speak?

 

Also,  how common is the drive block issue?  

 

I'm primarily using this as a "fun" gun for range use and maybe a side match at local IDPA match (if they'll let me shoot it, and just put my score at the bottom of the list, I'm cool with that).

 

Thanks,

 

IDPA is pistol only organization, but the club I went to would do alternate matches un-sanction and allow a shotgun or rifle on some of the stages. That was completely local rules. It will be up to the guys there. I suggest you take slugs rather than birdshot or buck, and/or go last. Birdshot or 27 pellet #4 buck doesn't leave much target for the guys after you, so it is a courtesy to either not trash the targets or go last.

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The SAS aluminum lower is the best thing you can do to the MKA. Mind that you don't beat it to death with a hammer.

 

 

Aside from the bolt. and upper…….T&N has every upgrade part you will need, and SAS makes the best lower in the business.032.gif

No need for a second MKA for parts.. If you need to replace parts you want to replace with better heavy duty parts not the same stock junk.

 

OK, I am not trying to start a pissing match, so I don't want to hear any derogatory responses from anyone.

 

SM, what do you think makes the SAS(?) lower better than the Firebird Precision lower?

 

And another question for the Saiga/VEPR guys... which is better, the Saiga or the VEPR and why?

Edited by Border Dave

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For me it was the price mostly since the SAS lower was cheaper when I bought it.

The big Firebird logo on his lower annoys me, I want to buy a tool and not a billboard.

 

I've handled the Firebird lower and it seems to be a perfectly functional piece of equipment.  I got the SAS because I'm cheap and vain. (that and shipping from T&N is faster since I'm much closer to them)

Edited by deathray
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The SAS aluminum lower is the best thing you can do to the MKA. Mind that you don't beat it to death with a hammer.

 

 

Aside from the bolt. and upper…….T&N has every upgrade part you will need, and SAS makes the best lower in the business.032.gif

No need for a second MKA for parts.. If you need to replace parts you want to replace with better heavy duty parts not the same stock junk.

 

OK, I am not trying to start a pissing match, so I don't want to hear any derogatory responses from anyone.

 

SM, what do you think makes the SAS(?) lower better than the Firebird Precision lower?

 

And another question for the Saiga/VEPR guys... which is better, the Saiga or the VEPR and why?

 

 

Well, that is not as simple a question as you might think. It isn't THE saiga. There are several saigas to compare...

 

There are saigas around with a mix and match of the following: Rock 'n lock or magwell mags/ manual or automatic bolt hold open, adjustible vs fixed gas block / restrictor (falsely sold as automatic adjusting gas), long barrel with full choke fixed vs short and threaded. Railed-hinged top cover w/ AK style sights vs IZ108 vent rib, vs IZ109 pistol sight type.

 

The most common base model is the Iz109: 18.5" barrel, Rock and lock, pistol sights, adjustable gas block (can take autoplug for the only actual self regulating option) External threads. This is generally considered to be the best starting point for an SBS, and is more likely than the others to run very light ammo out of the box. A lot will do 3 dr or lower, virtually all will do 3.24 dr eq. 

 

The complete package of all the performance options would be the IZ-433 which I spell out below in comparison to the Vepr. You can get that through Wolf, Legion, K-USA, and some others. Sometimes they do dumb stuff like perm on a comp which doesn't match. These tend to need 3.25 dr eq + without some work, as do the Veprs.

 

 

All are good, and none are likely to ever break.

 

After that, IMO it comes down to the ultimate cost to end up with the features you want. 

 

 

If you want a standard AK or  AR style stock or some other competition type thing, you want a Saiga variant, or a square back Vepr. Those are kinda hard to find. If you want a folder, The Vepr comes with a good one out of the box, after you do the 922r stuff. - But be careful not to get one of the fixed folder lookalike models. You can use adapters on slantback veprs, or get them welded back to square. Often this looks rather crude, but you may not care.

 

Assuming you are comparing the closest two versions:

The V12 has identical features other than the stock and thumb safety to an IZ433 saiga. -- It is a clone. The differences between those are:v12: thumb safety (with tab thing on right side too) vs '433 standard AK safety; V12 Plastic picatinny rail on dust cover - some flex issues with 'Dot sights/ '433 is aluminum; V12: 1.5MM receiver w/RPK style trunnion vs. slightly lighter 1mm receiver (I have heard of ZERO receiver failures, so IMO there is no advantage to the extra weight.) ;V12: machined working parts, '433 carrier and stuff are cast; V12 RPK rear sight leaf, '433: AK style - a little easier to get peep sights, etc.; V12: rpk-ish front hand guard but still one-off, S12 not really anything compatable- more options available for direct fit. Veprs have slightly higher QC on most parts, but the 433 is already a premium model compared to the 109, so QC tends to be better. 

 

If I were choosing between a '433 or a V12, the decision would swing on what stock I wanted or whichever one was a better price at the moment (factoring 922r parts). I would not be swayed one way or the other by brand.

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SM, what do you think makes the SAS(?) lower better than the Firebird Precision lower?

 

1. Price, I was one of the first to purchase the SAS lower so I got it at an introductory price.

2.  Design, SAS is a one piece milled design where the Firebird is 2 pieces joined together by screws, I don't know if it really makes a difference but the SAS looks cleaner and more professional. and as deathray mentioned I don't want some ripoff of a pontiac firebird logo on the side of my rifle.

Edited by Makc

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SM, what do you think makes the SAS(?) lower better than the Firebird Precision lower?

 

1. Price, I was one of the first to purchase the SAS lower so I got it at an introductory price.

2.  Design, SAS is a one piece milled design where the Firebird is 2 pieces joined together by screws, I don't know if it really makes a difference but the SAS looks cleaner and more professional. and as deathray mentioned I don't want some ripoff of a pontiac firebird logo on the side of my rifle.

 

 

 

SM, I couldn't agree more!    

 

I had a Firebird lower and sent it down the road as soon as the SAS hit the market.  It was large clunky & heavy. I also didn't care for the two piece "bolt together" design.      I covered up the craptastic logo with a large Glock sticker.  bad_smile.gif

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Well according to UPS my rebuilt, 922 compliant 1919 is on it's way home and scheduled for delivery today.  Only cost me @$385:(  Looking forward to shooting the snot out of it.  I'll give a range report ASAP.  Hopefully, I'll be able to recommend the builder's work....

 

GregB

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