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RWC Saiga 12 converted with Tromix brake


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The RWC conversion is about the same as the conversion work Century does to Saiga rifle, nothing special and no performance work is done. Expect it to just run ok.

Evl. Thanks for your feedback on this gun. I respect your opinion on the Saiga platform. You are the man!

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The RWC conversion is about the same as the conversion work Century does to Saiga rifle, nothing special and no performance work is done. Expect it to just run ok.

Evl. Thanks for your feedback on this gun. I respect your opinion on the Saiga platform. You are the man!

 

The good thing about it is that it has no heavy modification or hard to reverse good ideas gone bad. An empty canvas, if you will.

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I have to disagree with that. If you are a machinist, as your name implies, think about gears: Which will run smoother/ last longer. Gears with rough edges, or gears with edges that were trued up first?

 

The answer should be obvious. The rough gears will chew matching grooves into eachother (AKA "breaking in"), but that is not nearly so good as actually just taking 10-15 minutes with some sandpaper or a fine file to deburr the edge of the rails. 

 

The spring will wear in somewhere before the first 100 cycles, whether by hand, soft ammo, or hot stuff. Hot ammo does not break in the spring faster as some claim. That's just ignorance. Shoot hot ammo, because you want to shoot it, not because it will help your gun somehow.

 

One thing you can certainly improve a lot is the hammer profile. Again, you are a machinist, apparently so this should be easy as can be. See here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/76775-sweetest-trigger-for-saiga-conversions/&do=findComment&comment=973021 The G2 hammer in your gun adds a lot of drag to the action on both ejection and feeding. Smoothing that out is probably the most common thing that actually changes a gun from not running a particular type of ammo to running it flawlessly.

 

Also, tweak the hammer spring legs where they rest on the trigger body. Grab them with pliers and give them a bend so that they pull outwards from center line. This will pin the BHO. It will also prevent one of the more common Jams that you get with AK variants. Those legs can slip inside the trigger body and bind with the back/side of the disconnector. When you tweak them to pull outward, it prevents this. 2 minutes equals a substantially more reliable gun. Not sure why they don't do this at the factory, since it is a well known issue and such an easy fix.

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I have to disagree with that. If you are a machinist, as your name implies, think about gears: Which will run smoother/ last longer. Gears with rough edges, or gears with edges that were trued up first?

 

The answer should be obvious. The rough gears will chew matching grooves into eachother (AKA "breaking in"), but that is not nearly so good as actually just taking 10-15 minutes with some sandpaper or a fine file to deburr the edge of the rails. 

 

The spring will wear in somewhere before the first 100 cycles, whether by hand, soft ammo, or hot stuff. Hot ammo does not break in the spring faster as some claim. That's just ignorance. Shoot hot ammo, because you want to shoot it, not because it will help your gun somehow.

 

One thing you can certainly improve a lot is the hammer profile. Again, you are a machinist, apparently so this should be easy as can be. See here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/76775-sweetest-trigger-for-saiga-conversions/&do=findComment&comment=973021 The G2 hammer in your gun adds a lot of drag to the action on both ejection and feeding. Smoothing that out is probably the most common thing that actually changes a gun from not running a particular type of ammo to running it flawlessly.

 

Also, tweak the hammer spring legs where they rest on the trigger body. Grab them with pliers and give them a bend so that they pull outwards from center line. This will pin the BHO. It will also prevent one of the more common Jams that you get with AK variants. Those legs can slip inside the trigger body and bind with the back/side of the disconnector. When you tweak them to pull outward, it prevents this. 2 minutes equals a substantially more reliable gun. Not sure why they don't do this at the factory, since it is a well known issue and such an easy fix.

Actually I'm a precision instrument maker for a large university Physic department. I machine precision parts out of exotic materials and some not so exotic material to very precise dimensions for cutting edge research...I appreciate your input on where to look and what to do. I've studied this forum and respect what you have accomplished with your ability to trouble shoot and solve complex issue with the Saiga-12 platform. I was interested in input about this type of S-12 and you and Evl provided excellent advice for me, for that I thank you! You guys keep up the great work! I'll use the info from this site and people I respect on this site to make this gun run with zero failures looking forward to making mine run like the 2 of you can make the platform run! You guys are the best! 

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Thanks.

 

For clarification, I disagreed with what Striker said in post #5, not what Evl said. Striker's opinion is shared by many people who have done that and have working firearms.


Also, one thing I often forget to point out is that we tend to get mostly people with problems. Many people get OEM S12s and never do a thing to them, or need to. Those guys don't even think to come here. Why would they? So the problems get over reported and the guns that work fine get under-reported.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would always refine one of these guns. But that doesn't mean it is always necessary, just nicer. More reliable in theory.

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Thanks.

 

For clarification, I disagreed with what Striker said in post #5, not what Evl said. Striker's opinion is shared by many people who have done that and have working firearms.

Also, one thing I often forget to point out is that we tend to get mostly people with problems. Many people get OEM S12s and never do a thing to them, or need to. Those guys don't even think to come here. Why would they? So the problems get over reported and the guns that work fine get under-reported.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would always refine one of these guns. But that doesn't mean it is always necessary, just nicer. More reliable in theory.

I understand the points you've made, great analogy to the gears! I would be shocked if you didn't respect the technical expertise of Evl and a few other forum members. Again Thanks for your help! I enjoyed the Kaw videos you have on youtube. I owned a bike just like your bike, a very mean wife made me sell the bike after I was involved in an accident with a car running a stop sign...

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Four of the S-12's I have are unconverted RWC weapons.  One out of the pack functions at 2 3/4 dram out of the box.  The rest needed some work to get to 3 dram.  The worst functioning was the one Century build I have.  And that was mainly cleaning up factory parts problems.

 

Do your action smoothing and polishing first, and leave modding/adding gas till last, unless a port is blocked.  Everything needed for 3 dram and weak 2 3/4 dram functioning is usually an action smoothness, impingement, timing, or extractor problem.

 

Good luck on your build!

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Four of the S-12's I have are unconverted RWC weapons.  One out of the pack functions at 2 3/4 dram out of the box.  The rest needed some work to get to 3 dram.  The worst functioning was the one Century build I have.  And that was mainly cleaning up factory parts problems.

 

Do your action smoothing and polishing first, and leave modding/adding gas till last, unless a port is blocked.  Everything needed for 3 dram and weak 2 3/4 dram functioning is usually an action smoothness, impingement, timing, or extractor problem.

 

Good luck on your build!

Capt, Thanks for the info! You guys are great!

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Study the action and do so with the realization that much of the machining was done with production in mind.

Thanks for the heads-up on the action.

I would be embarrassed to machine parts in the condition production guns are shipped. I hope if I have a concern or question you might answer a question or two?

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Mr. Rumore,

I apologize to you for my assumption that a shotgun listed as selling with a "Monster Brake" welded onto the barrel was your product. I wasn't trying to mislead or misstate information, just being a dumbass for my assumption. Sorry I associated your great name and product with RWC....

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  • 5 weeks later...

Study the action and do so with the realization that much of the machining was done with production in mind.

Evl/Gunfun, thanks again for your help in pointing me in the correct direction...My RWC was nothing special...except the barrel was cut and a muzzle brake welded onto the barrel and re-finished. 4 port gun with all 4 ports unobstructed. Would not cycle Wally World cheap ammo as supplied from RWC. After studying the action and seeing where the issues are in the platform, along with reading all the info on the site. She runs like a sewing machine (bad analogy)! After shooting all types of cheap ammo thru the gun she is very sweet and fun to shoot.

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Ha. Funny that you caught how bad the sewing machine analogy is. It's a popular expression, but sewing machines have to be the most high maintenance costly complex bits of kit out there.  My mom gave me one for a christmas gift, and I have yet to make the tension mechanism reliably deal with different types of cloth. I need some wrench rolls.

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