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MrWizard64

Installing a Rifled Barrel for the Vepr-12

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Hey now,

 

So I've been having a good ol' time shooting my Vepr12 at the indoor range, and I find it to be very accurate up to about 30 yards.

 

That said, I'm sure that a rifled barrel would definitely help to improve the accuracy of this thing over longer distances...

 

I'd really like to install a rifled barrel into the Vepr but I've never modified a gun before, and I'm just wondering if any of you fine folks have any input on how this could be done.

 

(I also wouldn't mind a foldable stock)...

 

Thanks for your help and your time!

 

---Trav

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Have you ever heard of the Paradox by chance? I have no personal experience with this, but it's certainly not as permanent a solution as a rifled barrel for a VEPR.

54c75bf4a961e.jpg

 

 

 

54c75bf4ac17b.jpg

This one is to show that you can still use muzzle brakes even with the Paradox attached.

Molot+muzzle+attachments+07.JPG

 

 

It may be worth looking into if you can find one. The only option for a full rifled barrel, as far as I know, would be to have one custom made. It would definitely work better than the Paradox, but even if you find someone willing to make it, and someone to install it, it's probably going to be quite expensive. If you're looking for long range precision, consider using the money you'd spend on the barrel for a rifle.

 

If you're interested in it ,this place claims to have the Paradox, but I've never ordered from them before. Proceed at your own risk.

 

http://russtock.com/product?id=245

 

Hope this helps.

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or try the lyman 525 slug. itll clover leaf at good distances with a smooth bore... dump bird shot out, place slug in, re criimp and shoot. 

 

525_35gLongshot_CB1118-12_Lubed.JPG

 

Distance and wad?

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+1. They aren't cheap, or particularly well designed to use as quickly as they could be though.

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Just get the Paradox or use rifled slugs.

 

Swapping in a rifled barrel is not going to be an easy undertaking. Vepr 12 barrels do not come out of the trunnion as easy as a Saiga 12 barrel does and, unless I have been hiding under my rock too long, you would have to buy a rifled blank and do all of the machining at the chamber and exterior machining on that blank to have a barrel that would work in a Vepr 12. It isn't impossible, but I would not try it without at least two blanks in hand and a well set up shop. It would be less expensive to just buy another shotgun with a rifled barrel for shooting slugs.

Edited by evlblkwpnz

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You can get a very accurate H&R handi rifled shotgun for around a hundred bucks. However, I still want a rifled vepr or saiga because I want one.  Ooh. 18" integrally suppressed rifled slug barrel really sounds fun. The thwap of those slugs hitting would be awesome. I think I would have to make some custom 1.5 -2 oz slugs that would be calibrated to be accurate at 1100 FPS. It would be worth making a one off mold for.

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What style slug  are you referring to in the photo above of the target ? I am assuming 525 grain? Any input would be appreciated,thanks ,tom

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+1. They aren't cheap, or particularly well designed to use as quickly as they could be though.

Yeah.  New ones are about $70.  I have had mine for about 15 years.

As to the design....

Ummmm.?  I have the lyman pellet in both 12 and 20ga.  They are good quality steel molds and throw good projectiles once they warm up.  It's a lot like casting minie balls and what slows down casting is the manual base pin / plug.  I have a couple of RCBS minie ball molds with automatic base pins / plugs and it's tougher to cast good bullets with the automatic base pins.  Once you learn a technique and get the mold nicely warmed up, you can whip right through them. 

When I was shooting N-SSA, I was casting 200 of the 20ga (which are also .578 dia as cast and work great in .58 muzzle loaders, BTW) per shoot.  About 1,000 to 1,500 per year.  And I am very picky about the ones I keep.  No voids, wrinkles, bubbles, or obvious flaws.

 

Macbeau...

Edited by macbeau
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What style slug  are you referring to in the photo above of the target ? I am assuming 525 grain? Any input would be appreciated,thanks ,tom

post-1473-0-01626500-1440252278.jpg

post-1473-0-33313300-1440252299.jpg

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It's the manual core pin I was referring to. I've seen their price range from $65-90 / +$35 per handle. Considering that a competitor's product which can be used almost twice as fast costs $21 with handles included, that is rather dear. Granted, the rivet type joint on their compettitor's core pin holder has had a history of failing roughly every 20-40 K casts. However that has lately been improved to a more durable design and the casting speed makes up for it. 

 

When I get a Lyman mold, I will probably fabricate a Lee type core pin holder. I think the work of that would rather rapidly pay for itself.

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It's the manual core pin I was referring to. I've seen their price range from $65-90 / +$35 per handle. Considering that a competitor's product which can be used almost twice as fast costs $21 with handles included, that is rather dear. Granted, the rivet type joint on their compettitor's core pin holder has had a history of failing roughly every 20-40 K casts. However that has lately been improved to a more durable design and the casting speed makes up for it. 

 

When I get a Lyman mold, I will probably fabricate a Lee type core pin holder. I think the work of that would rather rapidly pay for itself.

You could easily mod the lyman mold to work like the RCBS, Rapine, or Lee with automatic base pin.  Just need to drill and tap the base pin end, add two bolts and a piece of perforated steel to hold the pin and anchor to the bottom of the mold blocks.

I never did it just based on my iffy results with automatic base pins on the other molds...

BTW - I has a blessing of molds...   Lordy.

Also   --- If anyone needs a mold, let me know.  If I'm not willing to part with it (rarely), I will happily cast and send you some to see if you like it.  Just cover my costs...

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Thanks for the offer. I was planning to do the mods as described. I've never heard of Rapine, so now I have to go do some research on that. I would love to find a hollow point/ hollow base core pin holder that would work in a magma caster machine.

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 magma caster machine = Drool!027.gif

I have seen one in action and could probably afford it. BUT -  Finding good quality lead and tin and antimony and linotype keep me from buying one

Lead especially has gotten hard and expensive to find.  I have a pile of lino and about 1000lbs of lead, but that won't justify and magma caster...

 

Macbeau....

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 magma caster machine = Drool!027.gif

I have seen one in action and could probably afford it. BUT -  Finding good quality lead and tin and antimony and linotype keep me from buying one

Lead especially has gotten hard and expensive to find.  I have a pile of lino and about 1000lbs of lead, but that won't justify and magma caster...

 

Macbeau....

 

Range scrap + superhard from rotometals... 

 

As for the magma caster, I did a review video on one i have in custody. As is, I prefer lee 6 cavs, but it won't be as-is for long.

 

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Oh right. Sorry about the thread jacking.

 

i'll p.m.

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hahah no i was serial! we cnt get muc hmore info into the rifled barrel thing so lets talk about WHERE/HOW to get some lead for these big bores! slinging an oz at least, at a time sure makes the lead pile shrink fast...

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Easiest way is scrap lead. Dental lead, pipes, roofing sheet, toilet gaskets, medical flasks for isotopes. All that is ~ pure soft lead. i.e. what you want for shotgun slugs and black powder.  Dentists and tire shops are going to be picked over. If you have friends in construction, let them know to set aside roofing lead when they have to demo roofs. It is just hazmat trash and a hassle for them. You can drive by and do them a favor and maybe get 80-100lbs from a small area. Ditto for plumbers. It doesn't hurt to give them a box of slugs either. I find having a few sample projectiles in my pocket makes a good introduction, and you can give them away ask keepsakes. Kinda like a business card. They'll remember you. I got given maybe $30 worth of birdshot a few months ago, and smelted about 45 lbs of sheet lead that my brother salvaged from a friend's estate sale business for free.

You can get it at most metal recycling type scrap yards for ~30 cents a pound. Get a dutch oven and a turkey fryer to smelt it down and skim off the dross. Make ingots. This keeps the crud out of your casting pot and saves time. 5-7 BHN

 

Range scrap is pretty soft too, but harder than pure. ~8-9 BHN. I would consider this safe to use for slugs, and about ideal for buckshot. Some organized ranges will allow you to pick it up, others will be happy for you to help on the days when they clean up their pile of tire shreds. Most people make a sifter out of wood and 0.25" hardware cloth. You want to wear at least a dust mask if you are doing this kind of thing though. Other people shovel loose dirt from berms at outdoor ranges through similar sifters. There are videos of people getting ~50 lbs in 10-15 minutes of work at a popular shooting pit. 

 

Don't waste wheel weights on slugs. They are too hard for the application. Perfect for pistol bullets though, and a scarce resource now. Pistol bullets should be 12-16 BHN generally.

 

Here's an easy way to measure BHN, if you can put up with the loser in the vidja: 

 

 

There are lots of helpful videos on the topic at fortunecookie45LC's channel.


p.s. hoard anything with harder lead or tin or antimony: lin-o-type, monotype, broken yard sale pewter, scrap solder. This can be used to harden up your alloys. Tin also helps to get good mold fill out.

 

I've gotten buckets of solder at scrap yards about twice for .27 cents a pound. It's good for soldering stuff too.


Another advantage of using something big like a dutch oven for your smelting is that you can pour a sample ingot, test it and tweak the alloy. 

 

If you are dealing with unknown, and it is a little soft, you can add dirty birdshot, solder, or a bit of linotype to harden the batch up. Pour another ingot, test it, and adjust until you get a whole batch just right. The larger volume smooths out the averages and gives you more consistency bullet to bullet over the batch than trying to tweak alloy in your casting pot.

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Oh. Another thing people do is to take a stand up dust pan with them and scoop during down range calls as they change their targets. The public ranges with steel back walls will be able to get ~ 5-10 lbs in a couple minutes with a dustpan and a box. Do this 2-3 times each time at the public range and you will always come home with more than you sent downrange. Just don't hold up other people, and be sweeping up lead when the others are ready to shoot. Give the RO some projectiles, and he'll be less likely to object. 

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I'd like to see Lee come out with a slut mold that was worth a shit. I e pattern well. I saw the title of one of lead caster 45, one of the ones that said to not make ingots and to make bullets.. It's sensible Yorty have the melt hot, you might as well turn it into somethin useful

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I'd like to see Lee come out with a slut mold that was worth a shit.

 

That might be a good seller. wink.png

Seriously though, ingots are an important part of getting bullets to turn out well. That's where you should be removing impurities and adjusting your alloy, or at least getting the lead into pieces of known size to make later adjustments precise. 

 

Cleaning lead in your casting pot just gives you lots of problems with the pot leaking and impurities messing stuff up. It also makes it near impossible to have consistent alloy properties. I've done it when I didn't have room for the proper gear, but it is not the best way and it ends up being more work in the long run. 

 

Having piles of bullets ready to go is nice too. I have just used up most of my favorite types and need to cast some more again. I am maybe months away from having my own way to do that automatically, which has kind of sapped my motivation to hand cast many more in the meantime.

Edited by GunFun

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