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NFA Gun Trust for Title II SBR or SBS


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So, i have set up an NFA gun trust in order to start collecting some class 3 / title 2 toys like shorty Saiga-12s.  There is a whole lot of info online with respect to these, but i can't find anywhere it says when your trust is active/binding/official.  is it when you and your witnesses have signed with notary?  do you have to file it with a court or submit it to state of Florida or anything? 

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No. You just provide it to the ATF, but how and what you provide varies with each way you can file. Mailed in forms need an accompanying "certified true" copy of the trust enclosed. A notary can create these for you if you provide the original trust document. E-filed forms will require you to upload a PDF file of the trust each time. Make sure whatever you are filing a Form 1 for is shown as an asset in your "Schedule A" or "Schedule of Assets" or your Form 1 application will likely bounce. In other words, you will at least need to update the Schedule A page of the PDF each time you e-file a Form 1.

 

Are you using flguntrust.com?

Edited by evlblkwpnz
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ya, i used this site to generate the trust document.  had it notarized and two witnesses signed.  that was my question, is that as far as i need go with the form in order to submit it with my form4 paperwork as the ownership of the hardware?  or do i need to submit the trust papers to the state of FL or otherwise register it somehow.

Are you using flguntrust.com?

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I send a lot of people to flguntrust.com. For a very flexible, lawyer written trust it is a great value.

 

No, there is no need to register it.

 

Form 1 is to "Make and Register"

This is to make items or make existing items into a configuration that falls under the purview of the NFA.

For instance, if you had something (rifle, shotgun, pistol, other) you wanted to make into an AOW, SBR, or SBS you would file a Form 1. Additionally, you could make (as in, from scratch or parts) a suppressor, SBS, SBR, AOW on a Form 1.

 

Form 4 is to "Transfer and Register"

This is merely to transfer existing items that are already in the NFA registry.

For instance, if you want to buy an AOW, SBR, SBS, transferable machinegun, or suppressor the dealer or owner (if in the same state) would file a Form 4 for transfer to you (your trust).

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So, i have set up an NFA gun trust in order to start collecting some class 3 / title 2 toys like shorty Saiga-12s.  There is a whole lot of info online with respect to these, but i can't find anywhere it says when your trust is active/binding/official.  is it when you and your witnesses have signed with notary?  do you have to file it with a court or submit it to state of Florida or anything? 

That is the nice thing about trusts. Nothing to the secretary of state. Private, except when you submit it to the BATFE no one else has the ability to look up the terms,etc.

 

But your lawyer should have told you that. Which makes me think you didn't have competent legal help. Do you really wanna gamble felony/ losing your stuff on something you understand this poorly? Lawyers who specialize in this typically charge $5-800 for advice and a trust designed for the purpose. I work for one of them, so you can decide that I am biased. All I can say is that BATFE will take trusts which are legal, but which will create problems for you or others later if some of the languange in them is relied upon. i.e. I met a former lawyer whose trust would have made his wife in felonious possession any time she accessed their safe, and he wasn't present. (or arguably could access) Oh, and if he died or became incompetent, etc. It caused instant transfer, without providing instruction on how to comply with BATFE rules, or authorizing the trustee to delay transfer for legal practicalities... 

 

Guess what I think you should do.

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Geez...what subject are you not fluent in? Thanks

for the advice. I read up on setting up a trust, before I spoke with an expert that explained the trust must stand up in a court of law when challenged by the feds or locals...not a good place to be in a lawyer missed some key points of law..

 

 

 

 

 

So, i have set up an NFA gun trust in order to start collecting some class 3 / title 2 toys like shorty Saiga-12s.  There is a whole lot of info online with respect to these, but i can't find anywhere it says when your trust is active/binding/official.  is it when you and your witnesses have signed with notary?  do you have to file it with a court or submit it to state of Florida or anything?

 

That is the nice thing about trusts. Nothing to the secretary of state. Private, except when you submit it to the BATFE no one else has the ability to look up the terms,etc.

 

But your lawyer should have told you that. Which makes me think you didn't have competent legal help. Do you really wanna gamble felony/ losing your stuff on something you understand this poorly? Lawyers who specialize in this typically charge $5-800 for advice and a trust designed for the purpose. I work for one of them, so you can decide that I am biased. All I can say is that BATFE will take trusts which are legal, but which will create problems for you or others later if some of the languange in them is relied upon. i.e. I met a former lawyer whose trust would have made his wife in felonious possession any time she accessed their safe, and he wasn't present. (or arguably could access) Oh, and if he died or became incompetent, etc. It caused instant transfer, without providing instruction on how to comply with BATFE rules, or authorizing the trustee to delay transfer for legal practicalities... 

 

Guess what I think you should do.

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You just hit on the handful of things I know anything about. 

 

I have been getting help from other people on lots of things I suck at from forums. It's what brought me here in the first place. I was OK at firearms generally, but wanted to know this one better. Lately, electrics and programming. Wiring diagrams are not my favorite, and I definitely need my hand held to do more than the very most basic of stuff.

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