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Numerous FTFe issues in mag left full overnight.


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Don't shorten the hook.

Update:  Both of these magazines have been loaded for over a year.     The top magazine is federal bulk pack birdshot in a KeepShooting 5 rounder and the bottom magazine is Federal XM127 00 Buck in a

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Very unlikely.   I leave some of my S12 mags loaded for months or years at a time, and the rest are loaded for weeks sometimes before I can get out shooting.

 

The only shell deformation I've ever seen comes from beating up the shells practicing closed bolt mag changes, and that's right on the front edge, coming from being jammed up against the bolt repeatedly.    Bend a safety pin at a right angle and cram into your gas ports.   They might be leaded up and robbing your gun of the gas it needs to cycle.

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Ummmmm.....?

  I have had many issues with plastic hull shot loads deforming under the pressure of the mag spring compression, over the years.  It's always the vertical,. single stack mags. 

The Drums (MD-20, ProMag 12 and Promag 20) seem exempt from this as no pressure is placed on the shell itself . 

However. every "linear feeding device" will squash plastic hulled ammo - given enough time.

 

 

Macbeau sends...

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Ummmmm.....?

  I have had many issues with plastic hull shot loads deforming under the pressure of the mag spring compression, over the years.  It's always the vertical,. single stack mags. 

The Drums (MD-20, ProMag 12 and Promag 20) seem exempt from this as no pressure is placed on the shell itself . 

However. every "linear feeding device" will squash plastic hulled ammo - given enough time.

 

 

Macbeau sends...

 

I'm really surprised to hear this and look forward to others chiming in.   Still, the idea that leaving them overnight would cause a problem seems ridiculous to me.

With all that said, I'm going to go check on some magazines that have been sitting for a while.

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Update:  Both of these magazines have been loaded for over a year.  
 

The top magazine is federal bulk pack birdshot in a KeepShooting 5 rounder and the bottom magazine is Federal XM127 00 Buck in a Russian 8 rounder.  I don't see anywhere near the deformation that would be required to cause feeding and extraction issues.

 

I don't have an SGM that's had rounds it for long as I use them often as range mags, but loading magazines is standard procedure for me after every trip when I clean the guns, so they sit for weeks or months at a time depending on my schedule.  I know that there has been some concern about deformation of the top round when the mag is inserted on a closed bolt and left there for a long time, but I think even that is overblown.

post-47428-0-84250900-1438215333_thumb.png

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Which ammo were you using?

 

Was it rolled crimp ammo?

 

Did that same ammo feed fine before?

As stated it was Federal bulk and yeah it was feeding just fine. It was the first "cheap" ammo I got to run smoothly.

Tomorrow I will run a freshly loaded mag, if it runs properly I will load another and let it set overnight again.

I am unaware of any input the gas system has into FEEDING the rounds, I didn't have any short-shucking, the single FTE had the extractor claw slip off the rim of the shell, I snapped it shut again and the charge handle removed the recalcitrant round without issue. The other rounds all failed to enter battery, some just barely even entering the chamber. The last four or five rounds ran rapid fire just fine.

It was ACTING as if the OEM recoil spring was weak, I shall strip it and examine the spring and such.

We shall see.

Edited by boomka
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Ran a freshly loaded mag through it a couple hours ago, same problems.

Only thing I've done is lube it with Lubriplate, not exactly a thick grease.

When I get the time I'll hose it down with something like WD-40 to wash all the lube off and then maybee a couple quick squirts of CLP and see what happens over the weekend.

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Hard to figure out this kind of thing without really examining it first hand. Sometimes the simplest things will drive you crazy. It can run well. Don't give up.

Oh I got this thing as a project, well aware of it's catitude lol.

 

Opened it up tonight to hose out that lube and found something I forgot. I had tried that trigger mod where you put a washer under the trigger group. The washer was a bit thin so the improvement was minor, I was planning to get a thicker washer and a longer screw this weekend so I had forgotten about it. Seems a small thing but you never know, I will remove it and see what happens.

If it runs after I "go back to formula" I will make mods in baby steps, and frankly I think I can do a better trigger mod on my own anyway, I do all my own gunsmithing including triggers on Sigs and CZs, so while I'm not fearless, I don't scare easily lol.

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I also have to say not the ammo. I posted else where in old threads about the top round shell deformation thing people used to be so worried about. I did an experiment keeping a magazine loaded for many months by a water heater (warmth tending to soften shells....) NO problems. Some very soft shelled ammo, such as the S& B clear soft hulls with roll crimp at the front, large pellets with gaps in between , not shotcup supporting the hull, etc. will have the top round get messed up.  

 

A few people have found that some federal tactical grade stuff has a little thicker rim which will bind in some mags slightly but not in others. It is rare enough, that it is hard to reproduce. Stacking tolerances of oversize ammo and undersize mag....

 

I seriously doubt your issue is the ammo, but it could be a dirt sticking to your lube in the mag, a weak or over strong recoil spring, clogged ports, extra friction from an un-profiled tapco hammer... - the usual suspects.

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Ok, washed out the lube.

Removed the trigger washer thingy ( sorry for the tech jargon lol ).

And now it's back to running 100% biggrin.png

 

So I want to reduce trigger pre-travel and over travel, since if I do it myself I will start with buying an OEM trigger anyway is there an aftermarket trigger that does these things without co$ting an arm and a leg?

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You don't need it, but it is nicer. I never heard anyone who shot mine say, "man I wish this had a rough heavy trigger." instead I get people saying, "wow, I wish my AR had a trigger this nice." Also you don't see crappy triggers on competition shotguns, wither trap or tactical. For some reason all the guys who use their shotguns for a lot of shooting want nice triggers. Wonder why...

 

And with A G2, about 15 minutes of work on the drop in $26 chunk of cast metal will make it about twice as good. IMO it is kinda malpractice to drop it in without at least a polish, when making it twice as good is so easy. Get rid of those rough casting lines right on the critical engagement surfaces. They don't help you in any way.

 

How is a stock trigger nicer than a refined one? I've been waiting years for someone to answer that.

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Did some close-up inspection tonight ( this is the first saterday in july that I'm not working! ).

1: the extant trigger IS a Tapco G2.

2: my original plan was to shorten the trigger hook to remove some of the pre-travel, but this would seem to have some chance of preventing the hand-off between the trigger and the sear during re-cock. Cycling slowly and observing indicates there is some chance ( however small ) that the hammer might be caught by neither the hook nor the sear. I figured taking some metal off of the sear where the front of the sear contacts the bottom of the receiver would allow the sear to rotate farther forward and re-establish the over hang between the two. However I noticed that while "on-safe" the trigger slack with the shortened hook would come dangerously close to allowing it to fire while still "on-safe".

 

The trigger has been polished ( but not the matching surface on the hammer ) most probobly by the good folks at RWC and it really isn't bad just a very slight drag just before release, was just hoping to shorten all the festivities before striker launch. I will probobly just rub that area gently with some sort of abrasive implement and call it good, would like to see how close I can come to the 300-350 rpm that I can get out of my FAL.

 

Once again thanks for all the help and support fellas.

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Don't shorten the hook.

 

Don't shorten the hook.

 

Don't shorten the hook.

 

Don't shorten the hook.

 

Don't shorten the hook.

 

Don't shorten the hook.

 

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Ran fine today with Win X12RS15 rifled 1oz HP slugs on setting #1.

It's shooting 6" left at 25yds ( but dead level ), is there a more elegant way to move the rear site other than "hammer time"?

Edited by boomka
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I'm thinking about shortening the hook.

 

I think I like your sense of humor.

As for the rear site, there is big hammer time. Clamp time. Shop press time, and even bigger hammer time. 

 

If those don't move it, you cut a slit into the site down into the dovetail to allow it to collapse inward, then resume with the hammer and punch. Dremel disc, skinny cuttoff wheel or hacksaw will do for this hackery.

Personally, I would start with the "biggest hammer I have" time. And a stout punch, of course. Clamping the gun down solidly will also make a big difference.

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Take a dremel with a cutting wheel and buzz a little off the right side of the notch. It makes the notch wider and with notch/bead sights you center the bead so it will move your POI slightly to the right. Yes, it's a redneck quick and dirty trick.

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Take a dremel with a cutting wheel and buzz a little off the right side of the notch. It makes the notch wider and with notch/bead sights you center the bead so it will move your POI slightly to the right. Yes, it's a redneck quick and dirty trick.

That's really not that bad of an idea, IF I don't have to work this weekend I'll let my hammer give a try and see what happens.

Thanks for seeing outside the box!

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If those don't move it, you cut a slit into the site down into the dovetail to allow it to collapse inward, then resume with the hammer and punch. Dremel disc, skinny cuttoff wheel or hacksaw will do for this hackery.

 

I'm curious about this and having a hard time picturing it.  Are you talking about cutting into the sight from above with a dremel along the line shown in red, or do I have it totally backward?  If this is what you're talking about, how deep are you cutting into it?

 

post-47428-0-53117400-1438712139.jpg

 

(couldn't find a good view of an S12 sight but this should get the point across)

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Your picture carries the idea. The notion is to cut into the sight most of the way, but stop short of cutting into the gun itself. It is clearly not the first option, but if he seriously cannot move it with a sledge or a shop press, this will let the sight move. Then he can replace it with the sight of his choice, or none. IIRC CSS had spares of the OEM style, and of course there are nicer ones as upgrades.

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Thanks for clearing that up.   I didn't consider replacing the sight as part of the process, I thought that this was being advocated as a way to loosen it for adjustment.  That makes a lot more sense now.

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