Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Is a buffer necessary?


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Squeaky

Squeaky

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 170 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:24 PM

Hey Y'all:

 

I want to ask if a recoil buffer is necessary or is it just a gimmick to make you feel better in some way. Is there a real mechanical reason for needing a recoil buffer? Does it help with longevity of your Saiga .223 rifle?

 

Just wondering. I remebered my Saiga doesn't have one yet. Shoots just fine so far. 

 

Thanks. 


Edited by Squeaky, 14 August 2015 - 02:24 PM.


#2 Heartbreaker

Heartbreaker

    Deep Fat Fry

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 945 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 14 August 2015 - 03:07 PM

A recoil buffer is like the buttpad on a stock. It's not necessary for proper function, but it sure as hell is a lot easier on you.
  • G O B likes this
"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." Lawrence J. Peter

#3 YOT

YOT

    Pissed off New Yorker

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northeast

Posted 14 August 2015 - 03:42 PM

I always figure that shortening the length of the bolt carrier stroke, by adding a buffer, does more harm and is more likely to cause short-cycling than not having the buffer. Kalashnikov designed it well.


  • Dad2142Dad and SGL like this

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#4 SGL

SGL

    Saiga Student

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 688 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 August 2015 - 07:58 PM

I agree with YOT and would also add that it could actually have the potential to harm longevity.  Instead of the carrier barely glancing the rear trunnion, that trunnion is now taking the full force of the impact (although padded) every time.   It is the recoil spring's job to stop the carrier's rearward movement, but if you put the buffer in, it is being artificially stopped short, with all of that energy transferred to the rear trunnion.

 

There is also the potential for that piece of rubber to degrade over time and break apart, possibly jamming up the rifle.   Though it would probably not cause any actual problems, I wouldn't put them in my guns if you paid me.



#5 Squeaky

Squeaky

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 170 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 15 August 2015 - 12:48 PM

Well ... I don't think I'll get a buffer then. That's one less thing to worry about. 


  • YOT likes this

#6 mancat

mancat

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 August 2015 - 02:45 PM

There was even one builder (I think gunplumber) over on AKfiles that claimed someone sent him a rifle for repair that had used a buffer, though it may have been overgassed. Over time the impact of the carrier on the buffer had caused the buffer to "mushroom" with each impact, and had pushed the rear of the receiver outwards and deformed the rivets.


  • Gary likes this

#7 Sim_Player

Sim_Player

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,148 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pacific Northwest

Posted 17 August 2015 - 09:10 PM

If the bolt-carrier is slamming the rear trunnion hard, replace the recoil springs.

Had that happen on my sks.

#8 Mike38

Mike38

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 75 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 August 2015 - 11:08 PM

I use shock buffers on all my semi autos, especially my M1911s. Many people say they are "snake oil". A few even say as above, they can do more harm than good. Tens of thousands of rounds using shock buffers, and I haven't experienced a problem one. I used to shoot M1911s competitively, that's how I can claim so many rounds. IMO, a shock buffer is a necessity. To each his own I guess? 


To add one thing. Many guys claim a shock buffer is not needed on a pistolsmith custom built M1911 such as I use because the slide to frame fit is perfectly square and battering / peening can't happen. It is hard to argue that point, but, stop and think, is the bolt to frame fit on a AK perfectly square? No way ... no how. I use shock buffs. Again, to each his own.


  • G O B likes this

#9 patriot

patriot

    Pro Patria Vigilans. Verbum Vincet

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 23 August 2015 - 11:45 AM

Kalashnikov didn't design it to need one.


  • YOT likes this

Fighting for your rights whether you deserve them or not. Pro Patria Vigilans
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein ...remember the Four BoxesJames 1:25
Tromix.....The best Saiga 12 you could buy. 


#10 Mike38

Mike38

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 75 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 August 2015 - 09:58 PM

Neither did J.M.Browning, but even great designs can be made better.



#11 Vance665

Vance665

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 485 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 September 2015 - 01:31 PM

My mini draco has a buffer. Other than that I don't use them.

#12 patriot

patriot

    Pro Patria Vigilans. Verbum Vincet

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,284 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA

Posted 09 September 2015 - 03:51 PM

Neither did J.M.Browning, but even great designs can be made better.

The 1917A1, 191A4, M2 50BMG all were designed BY JMB with buffers.


Fighting for your rights whether you deserve them or not. Pro Patria Vigilans
"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure." Albert Einstein ...remember the Four BoxesJames 1:25
Tromix.....The best Saiga 12 you could buy. 


#13 jerry52

jerry52

    300 Blackout Man

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,856 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West Florida

Posted 12 September 2015 - 11:14 AM

I run my 223 with a heavy duty spring because all I shoot in it is nato or hot as I can reloads.
Other wise you should leave it stock and not waste your money on gimmicks.
I guess the heavier spring would soften the recoil on 223 but recoil with 223 is not really an issue in my opinion

Edited by jerry52, 13 September 2015 - 11:24 AM.


#14 Avtomatkalashnikov

Avtomatkalashnikov

    Ak addict

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:lake titicaca, Nicaragua

Posted 17 September 2015 - 04:36 AM

I've been wondering if buffers would actually prevent the taill on bolt carriers from mushrooming out bad...the hammer reset specifically seems to flatten out and deform over time on many ak type guns.

#15 jerry52

jerry52

    300 Blackout Man

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,856 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South West Florida

Posted 17 September 2015 - 07:21 AM

Yes?

Edited by jerry52, 18 September 2015 - 06:51 AM.


#16 SGL

SGL

    Saiga Student

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 688 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 September 2015 - 01:54 PM

I've been wondering if buffers would actually prevent the taill on bolt carriers from mushrooming out bad...the hammer reset specifically seems to flatten out and deform over time on many ak type guns.

 

No, the tail of the bolt carrier often mushrooms due to the sharp corners on the hammer of the G2 triggers.  The rear corner is the one most responsible, and you can see this by slowly pulling the charging handle back when the hammer is in the forward position.   You'll see where the tail hits that hard corner and deforms.   If you're careful, you can round out that hard corner on the hammer (not the hammer face itself) with a hand file and sandpaper to prevent this or keep it from getting worse.

 

From what I have seen, this is more of an issue on Hungarian and Yugo rifles.   I think that the Russians and Bulgarians might be using slightly harder steel because they don't seem to mushroom as severely on this edge.

The tail itself never touches the trunnion as in the furthest rearward position it is nested inside the rear of the recoil spring assembly.

Assuming you have a G2 in the rifle this is the part of the hammer that is deforming your bolt carrier. (circled in red)

 

Attached File  G2 Hammer Edge.JPG   12.44KB   0 downloads
 



#17 liberty -r- death

liberty -r- death

    I walk where the devil dances. . .

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,483 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FOID country

Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:50 PM

Simple answer. No
- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while -
- Obuhmer won the election, we're fucked, keep on prepping -

#18 G O B

G O B

    Grumpy Old Bastard

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,763 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cen TX

Posted 05 October 2015 - 10:00 AM

No SIMPLE answers. I use buffers if they work IN THAT GUN. I do have a gun that will not work without one, but that one is a bastard parts build and the bolt runns off the rails without one.


Freelance Philosopher and Professor Emeritus, School of Hard Knocks and Sharp Blows to the Head

Be yourself, for if you are NOT yourself, then who the hell are you?

"so is the soap they use to brainwash you environmentally safe?" (Bucky Katt)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users