JDeko 792 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I dunno if any of the CSS guys are up right now so I figured I'd just make a thread. Which of the gas pucks do you get for a 433? The Saiga one says "all Saiga models" but since 030-types have a one size fits all gas system like a Vepr I want to make sure I'm not supposed to get the Vepr one. Range trip cost a whole lot less than I expected so I have money to throw into conversion parts and since I could put my Ironwood front and my Saiga is still in the "Sporter" config with an SVD stock the 3 mag parts would make it up to 922r with the US mag and a "Sporter" with the 4-round Russian mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm the wrong css.... But I can tell you pretty definitely that the regular Saiga-12 one will NOT fit a 030.. I'd assume that the Vepr-12 is probably similar, however I'd wait until you get a reply from someone that knows better. The 030 Saiga-12 is more like a Vepr-12 than a Saiga-12.. The magazines are almost identical, the gas system is pretty much the same as well. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I've been wondering if they are completely interchangeable for a while too. I feel like I read something about it when veprs were new to USA, and the vepr puck was slightly smaller o.d., but I wouldn't rely on my vague recollections. Google has really fallen apart in the last couple weeks but if you were to search from threads around 2010 you might be able to find your answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I found one where someone was asking if the Carolina Shooter Supply ones would damage their gas system because the nipple is bigger, I found it since someone said "look up how 030 type gas system looks" to prove it wouldn't damage it. Admittedly I was hoping to take the lazy route but maybe my google-fu will come through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I can have a look at a V12 puck vs a 433 puck with some calipers tomorrow. Congrats on the 030. That is a keeper. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Thanks, I PM'd Legion as well to make sure because I don't know what makes the 433 "always in second gear" as I heard a detractor say once so along with not breaking it I also want to make sure it still can fire birdshot reliably since I don't have a way to adjust the settings. I also hope to be able to get the extra 2% off for labor day ^___^; Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 The factory V12 puck will not allow the carrier to go forward enough to allow reliable lockup. The V12 puck needs about .050" - .055" removed from the face, which is bout .015" - .020" more than the nipple on the V 12 puck. I had some of the CSS V12 pucks, but I heavily modified them for an experiment, but I remember them being nearly identical to the factory puck. Maybe one of the site vendors will chime in and offer to mod a CSS puck for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Well I emailed CSS and was told to get a Saiga one, in my PM to them on here I was told to call them, and when I called the person I got at CSS didn't know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) You need a modified V12 puck. An unmodified V12 puck may work in yours, but it did not look like it would be reliable and durable in the 433 I was examining. The amount the op rod is screwed into the carrier generally varies a little, but there is really no way to tell if the V12 puck would be ok as-is without installing it in your weapon, checking lockup, and checking to see if the carrier will contact the trunnion on the left side as it should. If the carrier will not contact the trunnion with the V12 puck installed, leaving some space in the op rod/gas block/puck, the op rod, gas block, and puck will take all of the impact on the forward stroke, instead of the trunnion stopping the carrier. If there is not some space left in the gas block/puck/op rod arrangement, things will break. I have a puck that was broken into 4 pieces because of things being fitted too tight. I couldn't believe what I was looking at, but it was real and it was true. You should contact some forum vendors and see if anyone will help you. It is a very simple operation and should only take a few minutes to do on a lathe. The overall length of the puck is not the issue, it is the thickness of the face that needs thinning and the nipple needs to be recreated, so the circumference of the puck does not partially block the gas port orifice. They can either use a 1/2" end mill and take the material from the inside or they can use a cutting tool on the face of the puck. If they do it from the inside and take too much it will reduce the length of time and travel that the gas has an effect on the op rod and may have a negative effect on reliability. If they do it from the outside it will add to the length of time and travel that the gas has an effect on the op rod and will slightly increase ejection reliability. If you find a forum vendor who will help, but can't quite wrap their mind around what needs to happen I can send them a drawing that will show them exactly what needs to be done. I did the drawing yesterday, but don't have it with me. Edited September 6, 2015 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 What does the 433 gas puc measure? When I called CSS the person I got asked me to measure my puc and they could tell me if either of them would fit. I don't have calipers so I couldn't do it myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 What does the 433 gas puc measure? When I called CSS the person I got asked me to measure my puc and they could tell me if either of them would fit. I don't have calipers so I couldn't do it myself. Life is better if you just get a pair. http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-01407A-Extra-Large-SAE-Metric-Conversion/dp/B000GSLKIW/ref=lp_2476630011_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1441687566&sr=1-1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted September 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 I bought a gas puc from Legion, looks the same and slid right in. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 Legion always has the hard to find stuff. +1 for Alex 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 You need a modified V12 puck. An unmodified V12 puck may work in yours, but it did not look like it would be reliable and durable in the 433 I was examining. The amount the op rod is screwed into the carrier generally varies a little, but there is really no way to tell if the V12 puck would be ok as-is without installing it in your weapon, checking lockup, and checking to see if the carrier will contact the trunnion on the left side as it should. If the carrier will not contact the trunnion with the V12 puck installed, leaving some space in the op rod/gas block/puck, the op rod, gas block, and puck will take all of the impact on the forward stroke, instead of the trunnion stopping the carrier. If there is not some space left in the gas block/puck/op rod arrangement, things will break. I have a puck that was broken into 4 pieces because of things being fitted too tight. I couldn't believe what I was looking at, but it was real and it was true. You should contact some forum vendors and see if anyone will help you. It is a very simple operation and should only take a few minutes to do on a lathe. The overall length of the puck is not the issue, it is the thickness of the face that needs thinning and the nipple needs to be recreated, so the circumference of the puck does not partially block the gas port orifice. They can either use a 1/2" end mill and take the material from the inside or they can use a cutting tool on the face of the puck. If they do it from the inside and take too much it will reduce the length of time and travel that the gas has an effect on the op rod and may have a negative effect on reliability. If they do it from the outside it will add to the length of time and travel that the gas has an effect on the op rod and will slightly increase ejection reliability. If you find a forum vendor who will help, but can't quite wrap their mind around what needs to happen I can send them a drawing that will show them exactly what needs to be done. I did the drawing yesterday, but don't have it with me. I think you may have been right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Sometimes I hate being right. Did you get a V12 puck and the carrier will not go forward enough? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Sometimes I hate being right. Did you get a V12 puck and the carrier will not go forward enough? I've noticed it recently that it doesn't like to, can't say as I payed too much attention as to the before/after of it. Assuming I don't get my new FCG by then I might take my factory plug to the range, leave my 10 round mag at home, and see how the gun cycles the same rounds with the new-old puc compared to the US made Legion one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Is the gas system and puck clean? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeko 792 Posted February 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 They aren't filthy, but not sparkling clean either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 As long as it doesn't have a big biscuit of debris in front of it or in the grooves it should run well and go all of the way forward unless there is a clearance issue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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