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My finished Saiga-12


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Thanks to everyone here who helped get her running!!

RRRRAAAAAWWWWWRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But first some background.

Several yeras ago I promised myself I would have a drum fired weapon of some kind.
Tommy guns were out of the question for a variety of reasons as was the Papa Shaw ( god I would love a real Papa Shaw ).
This basically left the Suomi ( a Finish WWII 9mm ) the Puma ( a 22 ) and the Saiga.
The Suomi would have been a major project as I think most have been cut in half.
The Puma is a 22 and one I held in my hands a few years ago but never found much info about, plus it's another 22 which I don't need and can't find ammo for.
Then there's the Saiga, I knew these things had a rep for being finicky, but I kinda wanted something to tinker with anyway since there isn't much goin on right now.
I COULD have just gotten one of them thar Beta mags for my AK or AR but pretty much everything AR or AK is boring, everybody has ten of them and just buying a new mag doesn't get me another gun now does it?!?

The original plan was to buy a Saiga "Sporter" cheap, and do all the conversion work myself, then jackass banned everything russian and prices skyrocketed, even the sporters with plastic hunting stocks were going for well over $1,000, I saw several rather plain-jane Saigas going for $4,000+ as gougers were hoping to ca$h in.
Prices started slowly dropping early this year and as I got some cash I went looking again. Many of the sporters were in the $800 range still in need for the conversion work and while not super expensive it still costs some bucks to collect all the parts and begin the work.
Well then I ran across this thing, with all the conversion work properly done and even some of the custom/reliability stuff done and all delivered to my LGS for a little over $900!!
And now back to our originally scheduled program:

RRRRRAAAAAAWWWWRRRR
20mm of mayhem!

The Russian Rattlesnake!
I calls it the russian rattlesnake because THIS is a Saiga
ibzwnk.jpg
a two foot antelope that stays away from mirrors and isn't particularly scary and probobly doesn't bite. But let me tell you this gun has a bite to it, thankfully all at the business end.
So here's my Russian Rattlesnake!

Purchased from Soverein Guns with conversion work by RWC.
RWC or Kalashnikov Concern apparently is going to make US built versions but this is a genuine made in rooskieville Izmash.
Only downside for me is that the muzzlebrake is welded on to make the barrel legal ( 18 1/4" ) I had wanted a screw-in choke and I especially wanted to have an AK style sight out towards the muzzle end, but the aftermarket sights only weld on or slide over the end and the muzzlebrake prevents that.
As it turns out the choke seems less than needed anyway as at about 80yds 00buck is still only about a four to six foot spread, #8 seems to be around ten feet at that distance ( shooting into the lake makes it very easy to see what kind of pattern you're laying down). I don't know if this is pretty normal or if the muzzlebrake is doing some sort of voodoo to the exiting lead, I guess I need to run the same ammo through my Marine Magnum and see what's what.
Accuracy with slugs at 100yds is TBA.
Open Box:
2m5ywjb.jpg
AK cleaning kit with a 12ga brush, oil bottle and a buttstock capsule with jags n what-not.
Changable back and front straps for the pistol grip, and a ten round mag.

Even with just the handguard removed this thing is lookin kinda scarry!
334nb40.jpg

Quadrail installed:
swz8za.jpg
This is a quadrail from Leapers/UTG and it fits absolutely perfect, no wiggle at all. It comes with long and short top rails, I left both of them off as it lets me see the iron sights cleanly ( with the top rails on you can still use the iron sights by looking under the rails ).

The finished unit with the 20 round MD-20 drum!
2w74jo9.jpg

Close-up of the modified safety and Tromix charge handle.
2jcsf21.jpg

2gud0lt.jpg

ejsump.jpg

10mmu6r.jpg

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Hope you can tell how nice the finish is on this thing, it's almost pretty!

RWC mods:
Muzzle brake to bring it to 18.25 inches of barrel.
Pistol grip conversion, with interchangeable back/front straps.
Spring notch on the BHO.
Bent hammer springs to keep the BHO in place.
Bolt profiling.
Polishing of trigger parts.
CSA collapsable buttstock.

My mods:
Notching of BHO for safety removal.( a must do ).
Shimming of trigger overtravel and pre-travel/take-up.
More polishing of trigger parts.
Polishing bolt and carrier.
Polishing the rails.
Adding the quadrail. UTG perfect fit.
Tromix charging handle. ( a must do ).
Krebs safety lever, very modified.
Tac-47 Auto Plug.
Fitting of MD-20 drum.

Craptastic phone video of rapid fire with the drum.( apparently I had left the
safety on "ray gun" judging by the audio).


I'm calculating 266 rounds per minute. Not bad for 12ga semi-auto and a quick but very safe trigger.


Video of slugs on the 12" AR500 gong.

Yes I think the 6" goes around twice!

Oddly enough my dogs run and hide under my computer desk any time I shoot, even my 22s, but my tiny dogs love to run out with me when I shoot the Saiga and stand under the muzzle end hoping something good will happen, lil weirdos.
Oh and btw, this thing with the drum filled with #8 is the loudest most fun weed whacker EVER!
Leave it to the russians to have the word "Annihilate" in the owners manual as well as several sentences warning the owner to immediately dispose of the packing material, as it is poisonous lol.
 
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Ya. When you can afford it the choas rails are sweet.

Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read.

This one fits awesome and if it isn't giving me problems now, I don't expect it to later.

 

Also ran it today with some 3" Win 00Buck after I installed the blue blackjack recoil buffer, seemed to run just fine. I'm not a fan of the buffers but I did notice some "wear" on the trunion?? Probobly from when I tested with this same ammo on setting #2. IF I don't notice any problems down the road the buffer will be a nice safety net if the auto-plug ever gets clogged up or fails.

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Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read.

 

 

IMO all the rail things are too heavy and unkind to the hand for how nimble a shotgun should and can be. That said, I think Chaos are the lightest and best made of the bunch for the s12.

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Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read.

IMO all the rail things are too heavy and unkind to the hand for how nimble a shotgun should and can be. That said, I think Chaos are the lightest and best made of the bunch for the s12.

I own a Chaos rail with the HK sights. Very light and excellent design and machining. If you like the looks of the rail buy the rail. You'll really like the system he builds! At least I like the system!

Very nice looking gun!

Edited by machinist
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Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read.

 

 

IMO all the rail things are too heavy and unkind to the hand for how nimble a shotgun should and can be. That said, I think Chaos are the lightest and best made of the bunch for the s12.

 

 

I know people like the rails because they look all bad-ass, but they are lame because you don't need that much rail all over your gun.   If you are a rail fan, you might say "but I can mount a flashlight, laser, vertical grip, bayonet, extra optics etc to my gun" but you won't, and if you do, you shouldn't.

 

It's "airsoft mall ninja"

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Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read.

 

 

IMO all the rail things are too heavy and unkind to the hand for how nimble a shotgun should and can be. That said, I think Chaos are the lightest and best made of the bunch for the s12.

 

 

I know people like the rails because they look all bad-ass, but they are lame because you don't need that much rail all over your gun.   If you are a rail fan, you might say "but I can mount a flashlight, laser, vertical grip, bayonet, extra optics etc to my gun" but you won't, and if you do, you shouldn't.

 

It's "airsoft mall ninja"

 

Well Mr. Eggspert I DO have rails on all my house guns and they ALL have lights on them ( and nothing else, I don't like LASERS personally ).

I happen to prefer the feel of quadrails as they give my hands a better grip under all circumstances.

My first quad went on my AK after I got a significant burn on my hand after it slipped off of the minuscule front handguard and contacted the metal band on the end of the wood, a few expletives later I ordered a quad. The quad bleeds off heat so fast they rarely even get warm and have never gotten too hot to hold even after multiple mag dumps.

SO, I like my rails just fine and will give your groundless attacks no regard.

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Ha. While I dislike quads, I do like guys standing up for themselves and knowing what they like and why. hat tip to you. Well, I am too lazy to find a hat, but anyway.

 

For instance, I love green lasers. I think they do ~everything a flashlight does, but better. I like mid-long front handguards made of something light, and not sharp. Contours are nice, and it shouldn't be fat. The original M16A1 Triangle handguard is a nice shape, if it were not tapered. Just enough rail for the laser, and threading where other rails can go is all I want.

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Ha. While I dislike quads, I do like guys standing up for themselves and knowing what they like and why. hat tip to you. Well, I am too lazy to find a hat, but anyway.

 

For instance, I love green lasers. I think they do ~everything a flashlight does, but better. I like mid-long front handguards made of something light, and not sharp. Contours are nice, and it shouldn't be fat. The original M16A1 Triangle handguard is a nice shape, if it were not tapered. Just enough rail for the laser, and threading where other rails can go is all I want.

You would probobly like the Daewoo handguard.

I want a "Nam era" styled AR with the long triangle guards but alas SO many others I want too!

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I know people like the rails because they look all bad-ass, but they are lame because you don't need that much rail all over your gun.   If you are a rail fan, you might say "but I can mount a flashlight, laser, vertical grip, bayonet, extra optics etc to my gun" but you won't, and if you do, you shouldn't.

 

It's "airsoft mall ninja"

Uhoh,

Dang I've an AR with full length rails, flashlight, VFG and optic, thats three outta five... Guess I'm a Mall Ninja.

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I know people like the rails because they look all bad-ass, but they are lame because you don't need that much rail all over your gun.   If you are a rail fan, you might say "but I can mount a flashlight, laser, vertical grip, bayonet, extra optics etc to my gun" but you won't, and if you do, you shouldn't.

 

It's "airsoft mall ninja"

Uhoh,

Dang I've an AR with full length rails, flashlight, VFG and optic, thats three outta five... Guess I'm a Mall Ninja.

 

Yeah but you've got the best avatar so s'all cool 004.gif

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To qualify as a genuine mall ninja you must have the following: full-length quad rail, red dot with magnifier or *tactical* scope, 45° BUIS, AFG, bipod VG, red and green lasers, a flashlight, QD sling, jungle mags, batteries in all storage compartments, FH with suppressor threads, paracord wrapped around something and a bayonet.

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You would probobly like the Daewoo handguard.

I want a "Nam era" styled AR with the long triangle guards but alas SO many others I want too!

 

 

Too fat. I actually think the saiga rifle shape is pretty nice, as well as the AK74 contours. (too short though) Lately a lot of the ultra light AR rails with skeletonized tubes and monolithic top rail are pretty nice, as are some of the simple carbon fibre dealies. A round tube is not perfect, but it beats something fat or sharp.

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To qualify as a genuine mall ninja you must have the following: full-length quad rail, red dot with magnifier or *tactical* scope, 45° BUIS, AFG, bipod VG, red and green lasers, a flashlight, QD sling, jungle mags, batteries in all storage compartments, FH with suppressor threads, paracord wrapped around something and a bayonet.

Well dang... My time as a Mall Ninja was short lived.

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To qualify as a genuine mall ninja you must have the following: full-length quad rail, red dot with magnifier or *tactical* scope, 45° BUIS, AFG, bipod VG, red and green lasers, a flashlight, QD sling, jungle mags, batteries in all storage compartments, FH with suppressor threads, paracord wrapped around something and a bayonet.

 

Ha, I forgot about the 45º BUIS.

 

That's rich

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84 rounds of 12ga ammo in less than an hour and my beech handguards were barely warmer than my hands. Compared to the plastic grips it came with feeling hot enough I was worried something was up after 30 rounds.

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  • 1 month later...

I had the quad rail discussion with someone yesterday. I handed the guy my fairly light SBR (10.5" AR with Magpul handguard and a fairly small light), gave him a target, and told him to keep the sight on that target until I tell him to lower the weapon. After a minute or so I asked him how he would like to hold a much heavier weapon and he said he understood where I was going with that. A lot of things look great or cool, but don't necessarily translate into a weapon that is going to be comfortable to deploy for more than a minute or so should it ever be needed for serious use. After all, it is a weapon. That good balance of a converted Saiga 12 quickly turns South when changing things for the heavier up front. I see a lot of S12s and V12s with quad rails and nothing on them. It doesn't make sense to me, but then again it isn't my weapon and I don't have to use it. Less is more. Lighter is faster.

Edited by evlblkwpnz
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And yet no-one goes for light-weight in target guns where muzzle weight settles the aim.

 

Considering the heft of shotgun ammo, I think this is a non-argument.

 

This IS indeed a weapon, and I would rather have something I like rather than this weeks tactical operator "my way or you're a nugget" version of what's PC in the gun world. FWIW "I" don't like those add-on rails, I just have never trusted one, never seen one fail, but.....

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Light is definitely right.

 

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7lbs 9oz with 18" mid profile barrel, optic and empty mag. Most of my stuff has an optic, sometimes a VG/AFG and maybe a light MAX.

 

Looks good to me. Especially considering that has a proper scope. The fluted barrels always look good to me too. Pricey per performance gain, but easy on the eyes.

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  • 3 months later...

Right - is only meaningful in context! Light if ya gotta lug it, heavy for bench shooting, somewhere in between for most uses.

Hammers come in 10,000 different shapes and weights, because there are 10,000 different uses for them. You do not want a tack hammer for 20d spikes, nor a framing hammer for wire brads! Guns are TOOLS, and I have different ones for different uses. An AR on a 12ga thread is just like using a tack hammer to drive 20d spikes.

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