Best SHTF Gun For Untrained People

[macbeau 902]

I find that untrained people do surprisingly well with...

 

AK74 with red dot.

 

Recoil is virtually nothing

Cartridge is combat effective

AK reliable

Red dot is the simplest and most forgiving aiming system.

 

Assuming I know the person is reasonably bright and trustworthy, that would be my choice for arming an untrained person.

 

Let us not forget that the AK was designed from the start for use by untrained peasants and it has been used by untrained peasants more than all other weapons combined.  Mag changes are probably the hardest part of learning an AK but it's very easy to tell if an AK mag is properly locked. 

I didn't even touch on marksmanship training...  Just safe handling and operation...

 

I guess it also depends on what you mean by SHTF, as a definition, too.

If you envision you and others and X-number of "untrained" people forming something of a combat effective force, then hand everyone an AK-74 and all the ammo they can carry. 

 

If you envision you and an "untrained" person as trying to survive and make it to safety, or tomorrow - then blending in, appearing non-threatening, non-militant, non-governmental is more important than being able to shoot, move and communicate.

Camouflage is more that the pattern and color of your clothing.

 

In most real world SHTF scenarios, you are not trying to cross Mogadishu at noon...

 

Macbeau....

Edited September 13, 2015 by macbeau

[XD45 7,124]

There are endless scenarios from regional unrest to global catastrophe.  One size does not fit all.

 

My question is specific to the tool most suited to the untrained, given that a fight cant be avoided. 

 

Such as your extended family is hunkered down during a wrol situation and a gang is going house to house in your neighborhood killing and looting.  You just saw them gun down a family trying to escape their home on the next street.

 

Your brother in law is a level headed and smart guy who just never had an interest in guns.  He sees what's happening and wants a gun to help defend the family.

 

Now why do I pick this scenario?  Because I had this exact dream last week.  In my dream I was going through my safe trying to decide which gun would be best.  I woke up before I picked one but I've been thinking about it since then.

[BigChongus 765]

Handgun: Glock 17. Pretty much idiot proof, no skill required for mag changes, fairly concealable, good mag capacity, low recoil and no ancillary controls to learn or deal with.

 

Rifle: AK74 for the reasons Darth mentioned. 

[Redrum4u 125]

Arm them with whatever you have. Lol

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Ruger 10/22. Keep them out of a fight if possible and put them on squirrel detail.

 

E.t.a: i guess it really depends on who the untrained person is--if its a 10yo boy or girl or a fully grown dude or a petite lady--i think i'd hand them all different guns. And especially my relationship to them.

Edited September 13, 2015 by LuPiN8oR

[VR762Shooter 838]

There are endless scenarios from regional unrest to global catastrophe.  One size does not fit all.

 

My question is specific to the tool most suited to the untrained, given that a fight cant be avoided. 

 

Such as your extended family is hunkered down during a wrol situation and a gang is going house to house in your neighborhood killing and looting.  You just saw them gun down a family trying to escape their home on the next street.

 

Your brother in law is a level headed and smart guy who just never had an interest in guns.  He sees what's happening and wants a gun to help defend the family.

 

Now why do I pick this scenario?  Because I had this exact dream last week.  In my dream I was going through my safe trying to decide which gun would be best.  I woke up before I picked one but I've been thinking about it since then.

 

Given this I'd go with an AK or pump shotgun. In this scenario, you may be able to fend them off by simply having enough in your group to scare off theirs. I'd imagine if a group came up to a house and suddenly heard multiple AKs or pumps being racked they might disperse. If not, they get to find out how many are experienced first hand

[Spartacus 1,619]

Also let those in training know that if we catch you with your finger on the trigger or muzzle sweeping somebody

you are getting smacked in the back of the head. If they are not in for that, then no training.

[gunfun 3,931]

I find that untrained people do surprisingly well with...

 

AK74 with red dot.

 

Recoil is virtually nothing

Cartridge is combat effective

AK reliable

Red dot is the simplest and most forgiving aiming system.

 

Assuming I know the person is reasonably bright and trustworthy, that would be my choice for arming an untrained person.

 

Let us not forget that the AK was designed from the start for use by untrained peasants and it has been used by untrained peasants more than all other weapons combined.  Mag changes are probably the hardest part of learning an AK but it's very easy to tell if an AK mag is properly locked. 

 

So simple a child can use it, and many do...

[{ROS}_me 32]

Marlin Model 55 12 gauge Bolt-Action Shotgun , w/36 inch barrel . Very scary looking ,easy to load and shoot 

 

 

 

me

 

[DLT 1,646]

I refuse to give anyone with no working knowledge of a firearm one. But that doesn't mean that they can't be useful. Like I said, they can carry ammo, or even carry an unloaded firearm so as to appear that we are presenting a larger force. Deception is a great weapon.

[Hawk451 2,230]

I refuse to give anyone with no working knowledge of a firearm one. But that doesn't mean that they can't be useful. Like I said, they can carry ammo, or even carry an unloaded firearm so as to appear that we are presenting a larger force. Deception is a great weapon.

 

Carry ammo and load magazines.

 

In answer to OP scenario: Beer budget-Mosins.  Champagne budget- M92 or M85NP (with tritium D/I RMR instead of Fastfire RDS, no switches or batteries to worry about) Small enough for youngsters & the petite to shoot.  

 

I can't say if mine is typical,  but it's utterly reliable (except with thermold mags) with every ammo I've tried, good for a head shot at 100 yards & probably holds 'minute of man' accuracy out to 200-250 yards.

 

Groups here were at 50 yards.

 

 

[gunfun 3,931]

Really guys? It takes a couple hours to teach people enough to be safe with almost any common type of firearm. Most are so simple a soldier can use them.  

 

Are you seriously saying your family couldn't understand an AK or an AR, or a lever gun or bolt action? How dumb do you think they are?

 

I understood how most of the firearms I have handled worked with all the controls within maybe 5 minutes of handling them. Learning the safety rules and making them habit takes a little longer. 45 minutes to go over the rules + empty chambers, and constant reminders about finger discipline and flagging over a couple days of travel would be sufficient IMO.

 

Give your family and friends  a little more credit.

[james lambert 3,059]

In a real SHTF situation , the inept and untrained wont be around long

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

In a real SHTF situation , the inept and untrained wont be around long

Neither will the over cocky bang bang shoot em up types as well.

 

I will watch from afar as all you kill each other and save me a lot of the trouble.

The ones who will survive will be the silent ones living in the shadows.

Edited September 15, 2015 by SHOTGUN MESSIAH

[james lambert 3,059]

There are 15,000 people in my county of 4500 sq miles

most of the surrounding counties are larger with less population.

Living in PA ...in a city... phily is 2 million plus

you wont be watching from very far.

 

I will be comfy on an extended camping fishing hunting trip.

no drama no bang bang no looters no neighbors

 

but good luck with your swords and other ninja shit

 

PS you have 13 MILLION people in your state...its apx 10 times the size of my county

[csspecs 1,987]

I live in a county of 500,000 

 

Do you figure I'll make it?

[james lambert 3,059]

I think if the REAL shtf we are all screwed

[Sim_Player 1,939]

I think if the REAL shtf we are all screwed

Not necessarily.

 

God Bless You!

Edited September 15, 2015 by Sim_Player

[storm6490 2,768]

870 with buckshot.

I think if the REAL shtf we are all screwed

Fuck that! It would be a challenge but it would be good for us. Shit happens. A lot worse shit has happened to me. Bring it on while I can still fight!

I live in a county of 500,000 

 

Do you figure I'll make it?

I bet you would meet up with some good folk and end up happy and healthy.

Things to think about with a newbie and them depending on that weapon to survive.

 

Can it hunt several species instead of just men? Is it easy to load? Is it a natural shooter and easy to aim? Does it need lots of maintenance that wont be done? Can it take lots of neglect and still function? Will it mark an untrained shooter as a pipe hitter and draw attention? Can you find ammunition? Can you make parts for it to get it running again? Dependable? Carry weight all day? Safe to carry with someone who never had weapons safety and livefire exercises?

 

Just a thought.

[james lambert 3,059]

870 with buckshot.

I think if the REAL shtf we are all screwed

Fuck that! It would be a challenge but it would be good for us. Shit happens. A lot worse shit has happened to me. Bring it on while I can still fight!

I live in a county of 500,000 

 

Do you figure I'll make it?

I bet you would meet up with some good folk and end up happy and healthy.

Things to think about with a newbie and them depending on that weapon to survive.

 

Can it hunt several species instead of just men? Is it easy to load? Is it a natural shooter and easy to aim? Does it need lots of maintenance that wont be done? Can it take lots of neglect and still function? Will it mark an untrained shooter as a pipe hitter and draw attention? Can you find ammunition? Can you make parts for it to get it running again? Dependable? Carry weight all day? Safe to carry with someone who never had weapons safety and livefire exercises?

 

Just a thought.

you are  dreaming.

 

 

In a Real SHTF deal infrastructure will collapse 

Our society is TOTALLY dependent on the infrastructure to supply every aspect required for them to live.

 

loss of that will be an EXTINCTION level event for millions.

No water, no sanitation, no food, no medications, no fuel.

followed by rampant disease and starvation.

Anyone in or near a large population center will have very little chance of survival past a few days or weeks.

All the rambo and ninja talk or what gun you have will have very little impact on how long or if you survive at all.

 

You may now return to fantasy land and get off those amazing hip shots with the trusty AK and smite the rioters with your uber cool swords ect

 

pretty sure in the long run any survivors will see nothing but abject misery, and a daily struggle just to stay alive  

 

PS remember this is all in good fun

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I know for a certainty no one knows how that crap will go down. Thats all I know.

 

Even in a city if you are safe from fire (the flame kind people never think about), in a relatively defensible location, and enough stores to ride out the first couple of months at least then you got a fair shot if its only looters and criminals to worry over. If its the State wanting you dead ... bets are off. 

[storm6490 2,768]

 

870 with buckshot.

I think if the REAL shtf we are all screwed

Fuck that! It would be a challenge but it would be good for us. Shit happens. A lot worse shit has happened to me. Bring it on while I can still fight!

I live in a county of 500,000 

 

Do you figure I'll make it?

I bet you would meet up with some good folk and end up happy and healthy.

Things to think about with a newbie and them depending on that weapon to survive.

 

Can it hunt several species instead of just men? Is it easy to load? Is it a natural shooter and easy to aim? Does it need lots of maintenance that wont be done? Can it take lots of neglect and still function? Will it mark an untrained shooter as a pipe hitter and draw attention? Can you find ammunition? Can you make parts for it to get it running again? Dependable? Carry weight all day? Safe to carry with someone who never had weapons safety and livefire exercises?

 

Just a thought.

you are  dreaming.

 

 

In a Real SHTF deal infrastructure will collapse 

Our society is TOTALLY dependent on the infrastructure to supply every aspect required for them to live.

 

loss of that will be an EXTINCTION level event for millions.

No water, no sanitation, no food, no medications, no fuel.

followed by rampant disease and starvation.

Anyone in or near a large population center will have very little chance of survival past a few days or weeks.

All the rambo and ninja talk or what gun you have will have very little impact on how long or if you survive at all.

 

You may now return to fantasy land and get off those amazing hip shots with the trusty AK and smite the rioters with your uber cool swords ect

 

pretty sure in the long run any survivors will see nothing but abject misery, and a daily struggle just to stay alive  

 

PS remember this is all in good fun

 

I live in Montana so it makes it a little easier. My food grows in the yard. Deer elk and bears are all over the place and I have my own water supply. Life would be a lot more busy but it wouldn't be any worse than my grandparents experience in the great depression and Ww2. I dont do any drugs except coffee and could live without gas. Electricity would be nice but also not needed for sanitation and other vital tasks. I'm quite certain I would do OK unless I ran out of iodoral tablets. Damn fallout will kill you! Shit hits the fan daily and people still survive it. It's 99% mental. To test myself I did three months in the Bob Marshall with a backpack. Ended up gaining weight. Something about nothing makes me perform well. Hope you never have to deal with shit hitting your fan. It sucks but can be overcome. 

[JDeko 792]

first time I picked a gun up [a Ruger MKIII] I pretty much figured out the safety and mag release on my own and could hit a target at past self defense distances. unless the person is literally retarded any sentient human can figure out "point barrel at bad guy and pull trigger. this is the off switch and this makes the bullets come out."

 

now if they enemy is at like 50 yards or something they might just be wasting ammo but at least they're providing covering fire. 

[Doug Hartley 526]

I agree with other people that it could be very dangerous to arm folks that have no idea of safe gun handling.  Its easy for a newbie to sweep you or torch a round off into your back.  I'd rather do the shooting and let them hide someplace safe or reload my mags.  (or get bandages ready for me)

 

Doug

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

When the targets start shooting back I think gun safety loses it's luster while trust becomes paramount.

 

Speak honestly with anyone thats been in much combat and safety takes on a whole new meaning and accidents do happen but there are far worse things than accidents.

See I dont expect to survive, too old too broken down and just too ornery, I know my part is to protect and that means in all likelihood I go first. After that it is no longer my concern.

My preparations are to give me the best shot at doing my job when the time comes.

Coming to terms with things can get pretty damned bleak but better that than some fantasy. 

[JDeko 792]

I would probably say a pistol or something that doesn't require a solid shoulder weld would be the best choice as butt stocks seem to be very confusing to new shooters

[patriot 7,197]

 

Let 'em draw fire.

Edited September 18, 2015 by patriot

[Tundra1 391]

Stryker, you backpacked the Bob for three months? Thats badass! I would love to try that.

 

Don't think I could do three months solo though.

 

Very cool.