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Best SHTF Gun For Untrained People

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A bit of a twist on the old question.

 

If you had an emergency situation where you needed to arm an untrained person, what would you give them?

 

I have some experience teaching gun basics to untrained people and it is a lot like handing the car keys to someone who has never sat behind the wheel.

 

I know what my choice would be.  And why.  Curious what others would do.

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A break action shotgun. Limited range and the controls are super simple.

 

They are not going to be able to hit anything at distance anyway, so remove that hazard. Exposed hammers are better, as it is simpler to understand than a safety.

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An AK would be my choice. Very easy to operate and reliable. I think pretty much anyone could be taught to use one. The only reason I might go with something else is if the person is too small or weak to effectively utilize a full size rifle. Then I would go with a Ruger 10/22.

Edited by Vance665
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Interesting question.  Many definitions necessary.  Off hand I would answer that if the person is 100% untrained with firearms, then that person is not given a firearm in a true SHTF situation.  Too much potential for bad stuff to happen.  Do not make a situation worserer.  Too much too late.

 

Edited by HB.  s/p.

Edited by HB of CJ
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If I'm grabbing from my safe the 10/22 carbine would top the list.

 

The Security Six would probably go too, loaded with .38.

 

I don't have one, but a basic single shot .410 would be a good choice.

 

Thinking simple, simple, simple.

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I figured some would say don't give a gun to an untrained person.  I see the logic in that, but at the same time, "those without swords can still die upon them".  Many situations can be handled without shots fired and the more guns on your side the easier it is to "win" without fighting.

 

The single shot is certainly dead simple but it suffers from one tiny little drawback...  Get it?  "One" drawback?

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Funny this should come up. While I obviously have some level of firearms expertise my entire extended family has exactly none. ( well, not entirely true. My wife is very pro gun and had shot more than a few but no real "training". And I have a brother in law who is a police officer and and actually sits on the specialty team- the burbs answer to swat. I forgot the acronym. He qualified for sniper but turned it down because obligations. Only man I have ever met that can pick up a beratta 40 cal and hit the two inner rings at 25 feet with no problem. And he is not very 2A. Sad)

 

To the question? Well, if it is a true SHTF situation, chances are they haven't been sitting around eating MRE's and listening to ham radio. They've already been in bad situations and survived. Nevertheless. Shotguns? No. Don't own a 20, 410 isn't going to do much and a big no on any 12.

 

Rifles? 10/22 all the way. Hit what you aim at. Maybe a 9mm jrc/ keltec. Those rock river 9mm ar's are nice. Depends on what you have. Wouldn't really trust them with a rifle round right away

 

Pistols? 22 if you can find a reliable one that takes all ammo( lotsa thread on this).

 

Not a fan of 38 ( just me) xdm's, glocks and m&ps with whatever ( most importantly) they felt comfortable with. A big gun in the hand of someone who is afraid to use it does no one any good.

 

As time and experience progresses, so does the firepower. If it makes sense. I'd trust a person who can hit targets all day long with a 9mm carbine than hand them an ar/ak/galil/ scar etc and maybe hit 1 out of 4.

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It would depend on their role in the situation.

 

Extra firepower? An AK-47 w/ a drum. Keep in mind, every shooter on the front line becomes a primary target. I would hope my family could be excluded.

 

Guard duty? A shotgun.

 

Self-defense? A revolver.

 

I would not give a gun to anyone that I didn't consider competant.

Edited by Sim_Player
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One more reason to have lots of ammo to train someone and get them up to speed.  Maybe start with a suppressed 10/22.  If you have time teach them to use irons, if not, put a red dot on there.  Super quiet, and you can practice in the back yard without alerting the zombies.

 

But I'd say after that a long gun with a red dot site. Prob an AR with an aimpoint, sbr, light weight.  Depending on the person the weight of an AK might be too much to carry for long periods.

Edited by mizombiekilla
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My thoughts on the matter would be to give them something that removes experience issues. First issue I'd try to avoid is magazine problems. Having some experience showing people that don't know a thing about guns how to shoot is magazines can be a problem for some people. So I'd choose something with an internal/tube mag. Then, as has been stated, any additional safety option I can have on it would need to be available so it'd need a hammer right out in the open with a half-cock safety. Figuring they prob wont have much use after a first shot with something in a higher caliber, a .22 would be the choice. Given all those I'd try to give an inexperienced SHTF associate a Henry Golden Boy or Marlin 39A

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Untrained person = ammo /water bearer, until I can get them trained.

The last thing I need to hear from behind me is "what happens if i pull this?"... right before the top of my head comes off.

 

Beyond that, I like lever actions in pistol calibers and revolvers (hopefully in the same caliber as the lever gun) for the new and inexperienced.

I subscribe to the "crawl, walk, run" method of training.

With levers and revolvers, malfunctions are easier to deal with and controls & safeties are usually much simpler.  Loading and reloading are slower, but, no mags to keep track of or lose.  Levers also often come with a saddle ring, which makes it easier to dummy cord to the dummy.

 

Macbeau...

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I find that untrained people do surprisingly well with...

 

AK74 with red dot.

 

Recoil is virtually nothing

Cartridge is combat effective

AK reliable

Red dot is the simplest and most forgiving aiming system.

 

Assuming I know the person is reasonably bright and trustworthy, that would be my choice for arming an untrained person.

 

Let us not forget that the AK was designed from the start for use by untrained peasants and it has been used by untrained peasants more than all other weapons combined.  Mag changes are probably the hardest part of learning an AK but it's very easy to tell if an AK mag is properly locked. 

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I would probably go with what millions of people across the planet have used for their own SHTF situations, and hand them an AK with a quick lesson on how to use it.

 

Though, as others have said, it depends on the person, and the situation.

Edited by JoeAK
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I suppose it boils down to what you mean by "untrained".

I am assuming ZERO familiarization or experience with firearms (or their proper handling) of any kind.

We take a lot for granted.  We know to keep our fingers off the trigger until ready to shoot.  We know to treat all firearms as if loaded.  We know to not point or aim at anything we aren't willing to destroy.  We understand the concepts of trigger and muzzle discipline.  We can manage to load and unload most any firearm.  We also know immediate action drills, SPORTS, and how to address most malfunctions.  We know the difference between a bolt action, a semi auto, a revolver, a pump and a single shot.  We have a general understand or what makes most firearms function and how to employ their levers, latches, buttons and other controls.  We also know that a firearm doesn't just go off by itself.

To me, the "untrained" person knows none of this.

By that definition, I say they hump water and ammo until I can pass that info along.  After that, simplier is always better.

I spent a bunch of years in 3rd world shit holes teaching the local gentry on the safe and proper use of firearms (usually AK's, sometimes FAL or SKS's or CZ 52's, - what ever was most common it their little slice of heaven).  You'd be amazed how long it takes to make basic safety sink in, in a culture that has no experience with private gun ownership.

Edited by macbeau
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I was a rifle instructor in the Marines and now I am a Shotgun instructor for the Dept. Of Corrections.  With young Marine recruits we had a full week of snapping in where we taught them the basics on the Fundamentals of marksmanship.  That was followed by intense instruction on the life fire range.  Shotgun training for the DOC is 8 hours.  I take a person who has never fired a shotgun and in 8 hours I have them doing combat reloads and movement to engage.  So, in a SHTF scenario, Im going to give them a pump action shotgun and train them as best I can.  And give them a club as a back up.

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I find that untrained people do surprisingly well with...

 

AK74 with red dot.

 

Recoil is virtually nothing

Cartridge is combat effective

AK reliable

Red dot is the simplest and most forgiving aiming system.

 

Assuming I know the person is reasonably bright and trustworthy, that would be my choice for arming an untrained person.

 

Let us not forget that the AK was designed from the start for use by untrained peasants and it has been used by untrained peasants more than all other weapons combined. Mag changes are probably the hardest part of learning an AK but it's very easy to tell if an AK mag is properly locked.

I immediately thought of the 74. Edited by Sim_Player

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My sister has never been into firearms, She has no interest. I set her up with a NEF Survivor. It a single shot 410/45 colt. She's confident with it because it's so simple. I quiz her with it once in awhile and she handles it perfectly. I can tell that she's proud of the fact that she knows how to use it and can protect herself and kids. K.I.S.S.

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My sister has never been into firearms, She has no interest. I set her up with a NEF Survivor. It a single shot 410/45 colt. She's confident with it because it's so simple. I quiz her with it once in awhile and she handles it perfectly. I can tell that she's proud of the fact that she knows how to use it and can protect herself and kids. K.I.S.S.

One shot is not enough.

 

Glad you can help her!

 

It's time for a next lesson with a self-loading gun.

Edited by Sim_Player
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My sister has never been into firearms, She has no interest. I set her up with a NEF Survivor. It a single shot 410/45 colt. She's confident with it because it's so simple. I quiz her with it once in awhile and she handles it perfectly. I can tell that she's proud of the fact that she knows how to use it and can protect herself and kids. K.I.S.S.

One shot is not enough.

Glad you can help her!

It's time for a next lesson with a self-loading gun.

Lol, the main reason I noticed her confidence with the single shot is because I tried a mossy 500 20ga for about a year prior to the 410. To us it's very easy to learn new firearms thanks to a genuine interest. Unfortunately, she just doesn't have that interest. She would always get flustered when I quizzed her on the pump shotgun and would make too many errors, errors that would matter at the most important time. She's very smart, just got her doctorate and teaches physics and chemistry, just doesn't take to firearms like we do. She'll never "lay down cover fire" or "mount an offense" but she wouldn't do that anyway, it's not her character. She can however protect her kids and herself, and that is her character :)

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Depends on who the untrained person is!  I would give a Mosin to someone with the body mass to use it, Or an SKS to most people. A break action 12 to fumble fingered fucks that are smart enough to point it in the right direction.

 NEVER arm a panicy person, and some people are best used as bait! (others may NEED to be shot for the survival of the rest!)

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I'd hand them a backpack full of loaded AK mags and tell them "follow me, and hand me another when I say."

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There are no untrained people in my family/circle and if they aint in that the last thing I am doing is putting firepower in their hands.

 

Now should some oddball situation present itself where I must or rather should arm them that at most a breakover shotty, single shot. That is seriously unlikely.

 

"Trained" is not an absolute it goes from which end gets pointed where to full blown combat training. Trust is far more of an issue.

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If you need to train people during SHTF, I'd recommend air rifles.  The Whisper in .177 has a ton of kick to go with it's speed, silenced, and you can easily store 10K+ pellets per .30 cal ammo can.  It's a great choice for getting someone used to a powder rifle. 

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