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#1 Netpackrat

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 12:57 AM

Any update on the ETA of the new batch of S-12 bolt carriers?

 



#2 R & R Targets

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 04:57 PM

Not at this time, I'll see if I can get an estimate this week.

Doug

R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
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Saiga Action Video-

 

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#3 R & R Targets

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 01:11 PM

R&R Bolt carriers are about 2 weeks out and will be $280.  The op rod will not be included and will cost extra if needed.  Robert does have 12 factory Saiga bolt carriers with op rod in stock and they are $200 each.  You can call him at 503-551-7283 to order.

 

Doug


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R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
http://www.randrtargets.com

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#4 Netpackrat

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 03:19 AM

Thanks, I will wait for the good ones.  I already cracked one stock carrier, and I don't think I have that many rounds through my gun.  But it said the op rod was included when I placed my order a month or two ago.


Edited by Netpackrat, 30 September 2015 - 01:43 PM.


#5 R & R Targets

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:30 PM

Netpackrat, he will honor your order and include an op rod but the new ones will not include one in the $280 price.

 

Doug


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R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
http://www.randrtargets.com

Saiga Action Video-

 

http://www.powerfactorshow.com/


#6 Netpackrat

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:47 PM

Excellent, thanks.

 

You might want to update the item description on the website.


Edited by Netpackrat, 30 September 2015 - 06:49 PM.


#7 R & R Targets

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Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:25 PM

Excellent, thanks.

You might want to update the item description on the website.


Done!

Doug

R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
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Saiga Action Video-

 

http://www.powerfactorshow.com/


#8 Netpackrat

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:38 PM

Called to give my credit card info, and was informed right at the end that "oh by the way" the right hand charging handle on the new carriers is relocated to the rear, and I would have to relieve the dust cover about 2" to use the new carrier.  That has to be one of the more asinine things I have ever heard of in a replacement part.  Order cancelled, I will weld up the crack in my existing carrier.



#9 R & R Targets

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 04:20 PM

Called to give my credit card info, and was informed right at the end that "oh by the way" the right hand charging handle on the new carriers is relocated to the rear, and I would have to relieve the dust cover about 2" to use the new carrier.  That has to be one of the more asinine things I have ever heard of in a replacement part.  Order cancelled, I will weld up the crack in my existing carrier.

The R&R carriers were not designed as a drop in replacement for standard Saigas but are built to use with our guns, that they retrofit into existing guns is a side benefit for customers.  You could purchase one of the factory Saiga carriers which Robert still has in stock if you want a second carrier. 

 

Doug


R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
http://www.randrtargets.com

Saiga Action Video-

 

http://www.powerfactorshow.com/


#10 Netpackrat

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 04:45 PM

I think I will do that, thank you.  I just wish I would have known about the difference earlier, so I wouldn't have been waiting for months thinking I was going to be able to get something better.  The entire reason I bought a Saiga 12 was to have a shotgun I could run the same way as my AK rifles.  Moving the charging handle back that far would make fully cycling the gun more difficult when reaching under.


Edited by Netpackrat, 14 October 2015 - 04:47 PM.


#11 R & R Targets

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 07:52 PM

The current design is a change from earlier designs that had the right side charging handle in the same place as the factory carrier.  The new design is made to normally work with a left side charging handle and be compatable with a right side handle but only with the dust cover trimmed.  There does not appear to be enough business selling aftermarket Saiga bolt carriers otherwise other people would be making them.

 

Doug


R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
http://www.randrtargets.com

Saiga Action Video-

 

http://www.powerfactorshow.com/


#12 Netpackrat

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 03:47 AM

The current design is a change from earlier designs that had the right side charging handle in the same place as the factory carrier.  The new design is made to normally work with a left side charging handle and be compatable with a right side handle but only with the dust cover trimmed.  There does not appear to be enough business selling aftermarket Saiga bolt carriers otherwise other people would be making them.

 

Doug

 

I don't necessarily agree with the last statement.  Ideas are cheap, but making something right and making it work, especially something made out of metal that has to be designed and/or reverse-engineered, and then shepherded through the production process, is not so easy.  As opposed to (for example) AR parts, where you have an existing spec, that can be programmed into CNC machinery, and then hit duh button to crank out another part, which can then be sent out for various treatment and finishing processes to a known spec.  And in fact the whole process can be subbed out.  Reverse engineering the Saiga BCG takes a whole additional level of ability...  And while there are certainly plenty of others in industry with that ability, and while the market for the product as not as large as some, that doesn't mean that it isn't there, or that there isn't money to be made at it.  It just means that that ability will tend to seek larger opportunities, absent some additional motivation to explore a niche market like this one.  You guys have that motivation in that you build special S-12s and the better BCG complements your existing business.

 

I do think you are missing the boat in not offering an OEM configuration replacement type of carrier for those of us who do not want a race gun, and/or want to stick with the standard AK type control layout.  While it is true that with sanctions in place the Saiga population is probably not going to get any bigger, it's also a fact that eventually most of their OEM bolt carriers will crack.  When you are talking about a $299 gun, or even a $500 gun like mine originally was, you probably just throw it away and/or part out what is left.  In a world where an unmolested S-12 goes for $800-1000, and converted guns cost up from there, it's a whole different ball game.  If you have a $1000 or $1500 gun that you can't use due to a broken carrier, would you pay $300 for an improved replacement, so you could use your gun again?  Of course you would.  That's the new Saiga math. 

 

Using myself as an example, my S-12 is a registered SBS...  While it could theoretically be sold, practically speaking it is mine for life and I have a lot invested in it, so I want to keep it working, and I want it the way that I want it.  I just bought not one, but two OEM bolt carriers from you, because I want what I want, and I want to keep it in running order for as long as possible, and I may not have the chance to buy another one in the future.  I am far from wealthy, and probably didn't like the $280 price of the new BCs any more than anybody else, but you know what?  I would have gladly paid that for a stronger carrier in the standard configuration that I am used to, so I would not have to keep dicking around with more OEM carriers that will probably crack too, eventually.


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#13 R & R Targets

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 11:27 AM

You have a good point.  I will talk to Robert about continuing to make drop in replacement BCs for the Saiga since he already has the CAD drawings made.  He'll have to make the decision based on what he has sold and if he thinks there is sufficient market. 

 

Doug


R&R Targets - Saiga Parts and Conversions for Competition and Sport
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Saiga Action Video-

 

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