1927Chevy 1 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Ladies and Gents just got a Saiga 410 that I have yet to shoot as I live in the city. I purchased it for home defense as I live in the city. Would like to make or get a shorter barrel. I have been trying to educate myself on this shotgun as I am not in the know when it comes to guns. Am an old gearhead so dismantling it is not a problem. Working on understanding what goes on when you pull the trigger is what I need to understand better. I have also purchased a couple of 15 round clips and a 30 round drum. Awaiting delivery. I see many versions of this gun and am considering modifying the gun. Any guidance appreciated. What about a shorter barrel? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
forsaken352 235 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Ladies and Gents just got a Saiga 410 that I have yet to shoot as I live in the city. I purchased it for home defense as I live in the city. Would like to make or get a shorter barrel. I have been trying to educate myself on this shotgun as I am not in the know when it comes to guns. Am an old gearhead so dismantling it is not a problem. Working on understanding what goes on when you pull the trigger is what I need to understand better. What happens when you pull the trigger? Well, trigger is pulled, hook on the trigger disengages from the hammer, hammer under spring tension slams forward into the firing pin, firing pin protrudes from the bolt face, ignites the primer of the cartridge, powder inside the cartridge ignites, sends the projectile forward, projectile seals to the walls of the bore (in the case of a shotgun, the shot wad creates the seal), gases following the projectile out the muzzle are trapped and sealed until the projectile exits the bore completely, some of the gas is bled off through a port hole (or several depending on firearm) which leads into and fills the gas block, those gases push on the gas puck, gas puck contacts the operating rod and through inertia pushes the operating rod rearward, operating rod being attached to the bolt carrier pushes the bolt carrier rearward, bolt unlocks by rotating and aligning with the rails, carrier is pushed further rearward, spent cartridge casing is pushed on the rim by the ejector, casing then unhooks from the extractor, casing is then ejected from the firearm, while this is happening, the back of the carrier pushes the hammer down, hammer then contacts the disconnector, is forced further downward by the bolt carrier, the disconnector under spring tension is pushed rearward, allowing room for the hammer, hammer is pushed completely under the disconnector, disconnector then springs back into place, capturing the hammer, bolt carrier then completes its full rearward travel, recoil spring/guide rod then come into play by pushing the bolt carrier back forward, as the bolt rides behind the magazine (which in the time the bolt was rearward has pushed a new cartridge to the top through spring tension), the bolt face contacts the rim of a new cartridge, still under spring tension from the recoil spring, the cartridge is stripped from the magazine, cartridge rides up the feed ramp, the rim of the cartridge is captured by the extractor, cartridge is pushed forward to the chamber simultaneously with the bolt, bolt rotates and locks, trigger is then reset by releasing and allowing the trigger spring to return the trigger, by doing so, the hammer is then released from the disconnector, and falls back onto the original trigger hook(s), and everything is ready to be repeated. I believe I got all that correct, but I get lost trying to remember what I had for lunch. Someone please correct it if I made a mistake. This is an AK47 function. Almost the same as your .410. I have also purchased a couple of 15 round clips magazines and a 30 round drum. http://www.walkerfirearmstraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/mag_clip.jpg Awaiting delivery. I see many versions of this gun and am considering modifying the gun. Any guidance appreciated. What about a shorter barrel? I've never shortened any barrels on anything of mine, but I'd think shortening your existing barrel would be easier than making a new one. Before you grab your hacksaw, though, you should know this. You legally cannot have under an 18" barrel (most people leave 18.5" to be safe), or 26" overall length of firearm, without first getting a tax stamp. In your case, a "short barrel shotgun" (SBS) tax stamp. To do it yourself, you first must live in a "free state", which allows NFA (title 2) firearms, be ready to spend a few hundred dollars, and wait. To create your own title 2 firearm, you have to send off a form 1 (last I checked electronic submissions weren't currently being taken). You could do this as an individual, or like most people, you could create your own trust, which doesn't require fingerprints, photos, or the toughest part, Chief law enforcement's signature, but trusts do cost money. Mine was ~$150, but it's worth having. Your choice, but a lot of Chief LE officers simply refuse to sign, and that pretty much stops individuals dead in their tracks. So, when all's said and done, your form 1 is filled out, you have to then send it in duplicate, $200 check, and wait. Average wait time I keep getting told right now is around 5 months. For right now, if it has not already been done, I would focus on converting your shotgun (if your local ordincances allow it). There's plenty of information to be found on that on this website and online in general. So, congratulations on your new firearm, read up on it, learn about it, learn how to properly care for it, etc. Hope this helped. Ken ETA: To properly measure barrel length, clear the firearm and double check the chamber for ammunition. When cleared, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore from the muzzle (be sure there's no muzzle devices threaded on, i.e. flash hider/muzzle brake, etc., unless permanently fixed through means of welding/pinning), allow the cleaning rod to rest on the bolt face, then mark the rod where the barrel ends. Grab a tape measure and measure the distance. Edited October 2, 2015 by forsaken352 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Also as you shorten the barrel, you reduce the working pressure impulse time. So typically you will need to reduce friction, and increase port diameter. Radical shortening can require moving the port further toward the chamber to get in on that higher pressure phase of firing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Forsaken352 and Gun Fun thank you both very much. I would have a gunsmith shorten it, I have the longest barrel and I see other versions a little shorter. Like the 410K. Time to digest info. thanks again Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Forsaken352 and Gun Fun thank you both very much. I would have a gunsmith shorten it, I have the longest barrel and I see other versions a little shorter. Like the 410K. Time to digest info. thanks again Ken Remember that a Fudd gun smith might not really know what he is doing when it comes to shortening the barrel and still have proper function, a Saiga shotgun can require some specialized expertise to insure that the gun is reliable. It isn't rocket science, but if someone has no knowledge of these shotguns it may create problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thomfantomas 1 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) i wouldn't recommend shortening the barrel...and as far as the "clips" go your Saiga takes magazines i would highly recommend factory mags lastly don't buy any 2 1/2 shells Edited October 3, 2015 by thomfantomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thanks!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Send it to one of our fine 'smiths that support and adertise on the forum. Edited October 3, 2015 by G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pantera2 7 Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I would put some rounds thru it before I did any modifications. At least 100 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 I have decided to hold off and educate myself more so will leave the shotgun as it is and cancel my order for drum and magazine. Thanks to all will keep you posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thomfantomas 1 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 I would put some rounds thru it before I did any modifications. At least 100 ^^^ this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 this is the first thing I will do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 1927, SAIGASTOCKDOTCOM HAS 4RND. 2 1/2" MAGS FOR $42.95. THEY'RE THE ONLY WAY YOU'LL GET 2 1/2" SHELLS TO FEED, AND WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE, YOU'RE CUTTING YOURSELF OUT OF 50% OF THE AVAILABLE AMMO. ONE OF THE GUYS ON THE FORUM ASSURED ME THAT THE PRO-MAG 30RND DRUM WOULD ALSO FEED 2 1/2", BUT I HAVEN'T TRIED IT FOR MYSELF. I ALSO AGREE ON RUNNING 100RNDS THROUGH IT BEFORE DOING ANYTHING TO IT. JESS1344 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Jess thanks!! Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Will pay top dollar for large capacity factory mags, anybody got some? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thomfantomas 1 Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Will pay top dollar for large capacity factory mags, anybody got some? rusmilitary.com 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thanks!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Hey to all: gonna go shhot some rounds this weekend finally , up to Wisconsin land of the free! got myself a crossbow for turkey hunting check it out thanks to all Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JESS1344 508 Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hey to all: gonna go shhot some rounds this weekend finally , up to Wisconsin land of the free! got myself a crossbow for turkey hunting check it out thanks to all Ken 1927, HOLY CHRIST, HOW BIG ARE THE TURKEYS UP THERE? JESS;~)) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Ladies and Gents: finally got to a place that I could shoot some rounds and the 410 using the 4 round factory magazine kept on jamming at the feed area tried 3 inch even tried 2 1/2 shells 3 inch worked better but got tired of the jamming and spent some rounds in my Judge and 38 revolver. any comments on best rounds to buy for the 410 appreciated. Magazine reads 410x76 so stupid me should have stuck with the 3 inch. Sorry I am a new at this have always borrowed some ones gun when I went hunting and they cleaned it also. I bought these Saigas and got my son off his ass in front of the video games, now I mention shooting and he comes running. Ken Edited November 4, 2015 by 1927Chevy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 There are threads about that on here: Google like this: " site.forumsaiga12.com .410 magazines " There is one mag for short shells and another for long ones. I doubt it will like many of the shells made for the judge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pantera2 7 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 3 inch shells cycle the best. It's not going to run reliably on cheap ammo. The ones that run the best in mine is the Remmington long range express. Approx $16 per box. Second best is the Winchester 3" high brass. It's worth the extra cost to me rather than deal with cycling issues each range trip. Sometime you just got to bite the bullet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks !! Your comments have helped me gain some insight into this gun. give me a carburetor and I am in my element. When adjusting the gas cylinder stopper does one simply turn from 1 to 2 or 2 to 1 via screwdriver, mine seems very tight and does it go clockwise or counter clockwise. any comments appreciated. Edited November 5, 2015 by 1927Chevy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted November 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ1LcopZHKg check this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted November 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 great day shooting the Saiga 410 with 3 inch Remington and pro mag 15 round plastic magazine also worked well. any video on loading the 30 round drum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 you living in chi-town? my dads fam got outta there in the 70s up north when he started gettin in trouble with the law...dang snow though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1927Chevy 1 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 here in chiraq protecting my family, i live and work about 10 miles from ground zero, go to wisconsin as much as possible, land of the free home of the brave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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